Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Perhaps this is mostly a question, or series of questions, for the moderator, but i think most of us have opinions on it... I think most us search for a "good deal" on a guitar. But once that deal is found (hopefully!) i see very little (actually none) actual posting of prices, and the name of the dealer from whence purchased. Well, maybe that is not true in the special cases (like the recent GC sell off of 325c58...). And, what constitutes a "good price"? I know for me it is 40% off list. But it took me a long time to figure that out. Heck, maybe 40% isn't a good deal. (in some ways i feel a little exposed here, but i am curious, and i want to know other folks' experiences and views...) I just didn't know how free-wheeling the music business was/is. Maybe i am just dumb, AND i didn't realize how different businesses did their pricing. I know bicycles don't have nearly the retail markup of the, say, clothing industry (30% vs. 50% i believe are standard, respectively...)In the book biz where i work, in general, to sell a book (i am not talking about selling to the costco/supermarket/walmart (ugh) super reatailer here) at a certain retail price - call it the MSRP- you must be able to produce the book at 1/4 of that price. You (the producer/maker) double the price to the distributor, then the distributor doubles THAT price and sells to the consumer. (man, i hope the math works on that!). This is pretty general here, but pretty accurate ( as you can tell i do not work in SALES AND MARKETING...) i think. i am just trying to be honest, to the best of my knowledge. So.... what this makes me think about is: how does the price structuring work for guitars? i know it is probably (almost surely) different for different (small, medium, large ) companies, but does anyone know how it works for Rick? (What does it cost to produce a guitar or bass?) Do we have a right to know? And, is it OK to relate, say, specifically on this forum, where and at what price we got a guitar?
Probably i should have said this sooner, but i definitely support the smaller companies ( i have a couple of Ricks, and G and L.s -made in Fullerton, CA- and a couple of guitars make by a local- San Francisco- luthier named Dan Ransom) and i do not shop at Wal marts, i commute by bicycle, blah blah blah. You know the drill- local community stuff is important to me. Well not to bore at this stage, just to let you know where i am coming from on the price thing ( I DO NOT want Rick to start sourcing their guitars overseas. I am willing to wait for a fine guitar made in the US by folks who i think are being paid a fair wage by a fair employer.) I will stop now. Your thoughts, (please!?!) out there... --Dave

I think the problem with people actually knowing what it costs to produce a product is that once they know, the general desire for the consumer is for the producer or seller of that product to make NO profit on the sale. I'm in the automotive business and now that anyone can find out dealer invoice on a vehicle, that's the price they want to pay. They don't care about you feeding your family or even keeping the lights on at the store. Although customers want the best service, they are often not willing to actaully pay for it. Advertised discount prices can also cheapen the image of a product which I think is why RIC instruments are advertised at MSRP with discount prices available by e-mail or in person. Once I find someone who provides a quality product or service, that's who I use regardless of price. In fact at that point, I usually stop asking for price instead relying on the good service and raport. Mike Parks comes to mind here. Basically, ya get what ya pay for.

Probably some of the secrecy is that no one likes to put a dealer on the spot with others if they feel they got a good deal. It may be that a dealer may not be able to match that price again due to other circumstances?

I imagine price flucuate a bit but as you mention if you're getting 35-40% off MSRP you're doing alright.

Here's my take on the subject:

If I got a good deal on a product, it was most likely due to my research. I probably spent hours studying professional reviews, consumer reviews, and other data from a vast array of sources.

When I buy a big-ticket item (car, washer/dryer, guitar, etc.), I hate the thought of being taken advantage of, so I dig in and make sure I'm knowledgeable about the product and prices. As an informed consumer, I do this sort of research on an almost constant basis. I do that just in case a good deal pops up, I'll know it and be ready to buy.

As an example, I just happened to be find myself in Guitar Center when then had the 325C58 sale. I knew these had been going for $1799, so naturally, I had to move when they dropped to $799. But, I bought the Ric for ME, not for resale. I also got a great deal on a Taylor 614ce, but I was ready to buy and had spent 3-4 months researching the subject.

So.... why would I want to share that work with someone else - for free? Why would I want a stranger to get the same deal I got when they didn't do the work for it? Why would I want every consumer to get the same deal that I got, but without the effort? If I subscribed to that position, I wouldn't continue to get good deals. I just get what everyone else got.

I should probably have stated earlier that i am a left handed guitar player, which is what led me to shop around outside my immediate area for guitars. Not only do the local shops not usually stock lefty instruments, but often if they do, they are in extremely limited supply and many times not of the brand one wants (who wants a black Fender strat? Apologies to owners of black Fender Strats- i guess that includes Mr. Clapton but he probably has no reason to care about my opinions anyway... i digress..)I agree with you Dane, most folks DON'T want to pay for what they usually say they value. (i must admit to that camp on occasion... not a proud admittance...) It is what bums me out about Wal marts, Sams clubs, huge warehouses stocked with stuff most of us don't need with price being the sole reason, mostly, for shopping there. I am heartened though by the existence of our beloved Rickenbackers and the company of folks that makes them. Thank you Mr. Hall for your commitment to making such a fine product in our midst. Geez, this wasn't meant to sound so uh, sappy? is that the word? obsequious? well, i think you know what i mean...
Jamie, i think your point is well taken. No one wants to be put on the spot, i guess it makes sense that making the deals is what keeps the buying process a personal thing at some level. And we want that freedom. I reckon that is what wheelin' and dealin' is all about... As Dane said "YOU get what YOU pay for"

My motto:

"Knowledge is Power"

40% off of list is a pretty standard deal with the guitar stores here in southeast Michigan. One store I go to, Motor City Guitar, has a price gaurantee to meet or beat any other price including Internet sales. I will say I have bought a couple of guitars at Elderly and they can't be beat for service. If you sell one there on consignment, or anything they sell used, is gone through in service to make sure all aspects of the instrument are in proper order. Everything from truss rod operation, fret filing, and electronics. This is unlike most other stores that just take them in and hang them on the wall. Even new instruments go through service for set up. You get what you pay for.

325c58 for $799? I feel faint...

and jealous...

In the UK, we can research all we want, but it wont help much because there just don't seem to be the Rics around & if you want anything unusual, then there is next to no choice. I think, as Dane said, you find someone that you trust & can rely on to get you the guitar you want at a decent price. Mike Smith at RicsRUs is the chap.
Once you get your guitar, you have to find someone to look after it & as we know, you don't let just anyone near your Ric. I am lucky enough to live close to Mansons Gtr Shop, in Exeter, who do know how to look after Rics. I have bought a couple of Rics there, but they are at the mercy of the UK distributors (don't get me started on that), so when they do get Rics, they are the standard models & nothing too differant.

Ethan,

"325c58 for $799? I feel faint... and jealous..."

I know - isn't it horrible? I just happened to have a very lucky day. I had been drooling over that guitar for months, but I just couldn't justify paying the BIG BUCKS for it, until...

The C58 at GC was a very special circumstance. I really believe that a Ric made in america is and outstanding guitar in quality for the money.
Just look at how much a Gretsch with no better quality in fact not as good a quality as a Ric and its made of overseas to boot if the factory actually had to repair one.
I never hear of people ordering or buying a Ric and then having trouble with it as soon as they take it out of the case.
Epiphones are the same way. In fact lots of these high dollar guitars are expected to have this or that wrong with them. Which is a shame and a disgrace.
I was spoiled for many years with American build guitars with good quality no out of the case problems and decent prices. So I began to expect it. Ric still upholds that tradition.
It would be nice if GC would always buy up a lot of special guitars then wind up discounting them.