Rick Quality

[dead_eye]

Before I purchased my new Ric I bought a Gibson ES-333 made in the Memphis plant,and I had a lot of trouble with it,and had to take it back,and get an in-store credit for it.I was telling my local guitar tech about it and he told me that the guitars made today are not of the same quality that the guitars were when we were kids(we're both 53)so we're talking about guitars made in the 60's.I didnt ask him about Rics specifcally,but my new Ric seems to be as well made as any guitar I've ever seen,it's workmanship is flawless,I guess what Im asking is do the rics of today have the same quality as the Ric of old?(50's & 60's)?
Paul

[fading_fast]

I picked up my 660 a couple of days ago. The quality of fit and finish is as good as I've seen. I've turned it over in my hands a hundred times and couldn't find so much as a dimple in the clear coat or a misaligned screw.

The only things that need work are the nut and a little bit of file finesse on the saddles, they were pretty rough. Other than that, it's sound a dollar pound.

Yay Rickenbacker. Thanks for building me a great guitar.

[jingle_jangle]

After many, many guitars since I started playing in '64 (on my best buddy's '53 Tele!!!), I finally realized a lifetime dream and purchased a Montezuma Brown 660-12, sight unseen, from Dave's Guitars in Wisconsin. I had originally wanted a FG 660-12, but when I saw a large picture of the MB version, I was floored. I searched the web for several evenings before finding Dave's site and placing my order. The fellow I spoke to was very helpful, and I gave him my credit card number and an additional $100.00 for packing and next day air shipping.

The next day, my "new" Rick arrived at my office. The box had several stickers warning me not to open the case for 24 hours, to allow the guitar to slowly acclimate. I waited 48, because at 24 it was still very cold when I took it out of the case.

First thing I noticed: NO KEYS for the case! The rest of the case candy was there, certifying that it was a NEW guitar: warranty card, manual, catalog, everything properly bagged.

I careully lifted the guitar out of its case and inspected it carefully. The setup was so-so, and I've been dialing it in bit by bit since I got it on Dec 21. It plays well and will play better; the sound is incredible!

Near the center of the back was a dime-sized grouping of small circular scratches in the clearcoat. Somebody had been playing "my new" guitar. Near the bottom strap button I also found a half-dozen shallow dings in the clearcoat, about 2 mm in length and too deep to polish out.

I did not believe that these defects would be allowed out of the factory, so I called Dave's and spoke to a young man who put me on hold while he checked their other Ricks for case keys. He reported that there were none in any of the other cases, either, and mentioned that I should call or write Rick for replacements. I mentioned the scratches and nicks and he offered to "buff them out" if I would return the guitar to him. (This, after I paid $100.00 to have it rushed to me!) I declined and mailed in my warranty card.

I will touch up the conversion varnish in these two areas, color-sand the catalyzed touchup, and buff it out. I've done a fair amount of this type of work over the last 35 years, and I do feel more confident doing this myself than subjecting the instrument to two more incidents of thermal shock and trusting a dealer who sent me a damaged instrument to repair that damage satisfactorily.

Except for this glitch, the "as manufactured" quality of the guitar is INCREDIBLE. The Rick factory produces instruments of legendary quality, if my guitar is anything to go by. But dealers cannot trade upon the goodwill and reputation of anyone but themselves.

I fault myself for not asking the folks at Dave's directly if they had another MB 660-12; the clerk (Dave?) had told me that he had one in stock and that's the one I got. I also am far too fond of this realized dream to trust it to anyone else now. But I do feel that at best, the guitar was not inspected at the dealer's and at the worst case, they knew that the guitar was blemished prior to shipping it to a very eager customer.

[jwr2]

I have owned lots of Ric basses ...I don't think there is a problem with quality ... the old basses weren't made better ... they were made different ... they sound and play different ... the new ones are stronger and easier to adjust ... the old ones are more fragile and you have to be careful with the neck ... but they were more resonant ...

my biggest problem with Rickenbacker is choices ... they make choices on features installed on the bass and I sometimes don't like those choices so I have to modify the bass ... I don't like the toggle on the 4004 and I don't like the mute, cover, and ric-o-sound on the 4003 ... but those are minor problems ... I can remove those features ...

[bluespckr]

I've been playing for 35 years, and until two weeks ago, never owned a Ric. My experience with Gibson has been interesting. I bought an old Michigan-made Les Paul about 30 years ago, and that thing was solid as a rock. I still have it, but it was the victim of an accident and is literally in pieces. But until that happened, it stayed in tune, was so easy to play. Great sound. Over the past 12 years, or so since, I've owned (past tense) a near new ES-335 and a new LP, both made in Tennessee, and both pieces of junk. Never could keep those ******* in tune, despite repeated trips to the shop. I finally got rid of them, thanks. The Ric is a whole 'nother creature -- no flaws, no quality issues, a sound and playability to die for --- and it stays in tune. I've wanted one of these since I was a wide-eyed boy watching all those early groups (Byrds, Who, etc.) playing Rics -- just never got one. Man, I'm just sorry I waited this long.

[dead_eye]

Well it's good to hear that at least one American guitar company is still makeing fine guitars as I have stated I can find absolutly no flaws at all on my new Ric.That new ES-333 was a piece of junk ,I too could'nt keep it in tune,the center frets were too high I don't think they worked the nut at all,and when I sighted down the neck the edge where the binding is looked like a rollercoaster!At least at the Memphis plant,Gibson has some very bad quality control issues.And Jingle jangle maybe you should let Rickenbacker know how that dealer treated you,maybe they could do something about it,at the least I think that dealer should make a monitory adjustment on the price you paid for your Ric,I mean there was nothing wrong with the money you sent them,why should you settle for a flawed guitar,even if the flaws are minor and you can straighten them out yourself!!The dealer did'nt have to straighten out the money you sent him for the guitar!!
Paul

[loendmaestro]

I bought a 2001 Gibson Thunderbird direct from Gibson & I have to agree on the quality control issues. When I received my bass it was missing 2 screws from the pickguard & the nut was cut so badly the A string just buzzed & fretted out whenever you touched it. I had to spent almost $200 to get it done up right. I love the bass & it plays great now, but how could something leave the factory in that bad of shape?
On the other end of the spectrum, when I got my Montezuma Brown 4003 it arrived perfectly set up & in tune even!

[dave4004]

Paul (Dead_eye): IMHO today's Rickenbackers have much better workmanship on the whole than in the 1950s and 1960s).

Paul (jingle_jangle): Two of my 4003s came from Dave's Guitar Shop, one of them new and the other from the original owner who bought it new at Dave's. It's a retail store. When they receive a guitar, it goes out on the sales floor. It's handled by customers. Maybe they get enough of some brands to have a backstock, but not Rics.

They let you down by not seeing to it that it was buffed up beforehand and any further damage disclosed so that you could have made a decision on it. No question about that. But if you want one that no customers have played, you need to special order one, or specify that you only want one new-in-box, or deal with those few dealers like North Coast Music who have no public showroom.

[jingle_jangle]

Thanks, both Paul and Dave, both ends of the spectrum--newbie and oldtimer! Paul, of course I considered the angle of monetary adjustment, but, seriously, I was a small businessman for 20+ years and I understand some of the issues that Dave Westheimer alludes to. I bear no animosity towards Dave's shop . In principle, they could have checked my unit out a bit more closely, but in my mind this is NOT worth getting my knickers in a twist, because I am quite capable of setting this right myself quickly, rather than spending my time getting into any sort of pissing contest with a vendor.

Dave W., you are absolutely correct about the "in-stock vs. special order" thing, especially on a relatively rare bird like the MB 660-12. I was happy to get it and soon it will be perfectly capable of beginning its journey of entropy, unaided.

[jeff_ulmer]

While I haven't had the greatest of luck with the Rics I have ordered, I wouldn't say that there are issues across the board. In all but one case, the problems I had were fairly minor and mostly cosmetic. All my other Rics were used, and those had only expected wear issues.

I have had some issues with Gibson, but they were quickly rectified by the dealer. Same goes for Fender, again quickly fixed with no hassles. The only real problem with Ric here in Canada is that if there is a major problem or you get a lemon, it is expensive to ship back to the factory to get it fixed, and there likely isn't replacement stock to simply swap out the guitar like there is with most other brands. We'll see how the guitar I have on order currently turns out, whenever it arrives. Hopefully it will have no issues.

[dave4004]

I guess I'm fortunate, the only manufacturing defect I've ever had on an instrument I bought new was orange peel in the nitro finish of my 1994 (USA) Hamer Special, and that didn't become apparent until after the finish warranty had expired.

Of course manufacturing defects do happen, but my gut feeling is that more problems are caused by dealer mishandling or a dealer's failure to take adequate care than factory mistakes.

[soundmasterg]

As far as I know, RIC is the only one of the good old group of American guitar companies(Fender, RIC, Gibson, Martin, etc.) still making all their guitars in the USA. The only new RICs that I've ever seen in a store where everything wasn't perfect have been when they are at Guitar Center. The action and intonation has been off on a couple there, and all were new instruments. Other than that, RICS are the best quality out there for a mainstream US guitar maker IMHO.

I'm with Jeff though. Some of the features of their guitars are odd, and not well liked by everyone. The Rick O' Sound and the string mutes and the poor bridge adjustments on the 4003. The narrow neck on the electric 12 strings, etc. If RIC would have a custom shop, they could increase sales and make better instruments. For whatever reason however, they have resisted.

[tony_carey]

Why would Ric want to sell more gtrs, when they sell everyone that they make. Mr Hall once reminded me that Rickenbacker will not sacrifice quality for quantity & I would guess that a company can reach a certain size & then once over it, it could be very difficult to keep track of what's going on.
A Ric custom shop would be very interesting though, but let's be honest....if they opened one, there wouldn't be one of us forumites who would have any money left to keep our houses & also, none of us would probably have wives or husbands......lust is a horrid thing!

[jingle_jangle]

Not to mention the teething problems that a new custom shop would have. Ric is arguabably the most-watched and gossiped-about guitar company on the face of the planet. Why? Because it represents the philosophies and passion of one man and his son, remains family-owned and as such an "approachable" anachronism, becomes a lightning rod for every guitarist's and guitar manufacturer wannabee's emotions, mine included of course. People with a gripe about the product seem to take it more personally and those with good things to say occasionally turn their pleasure into worship.

Online forums such as this allow rumor and innuendo to proliferate worldwide in seconds, as opposed to the weeks and months of the "good old days" pre-WWW.

I could just see the electrons flying the first time a "custom shop" Ric turned up with less-than perfect intonation or a tiny glitch in the wiring or a bit of buffing compound around the binding.

I once owned a small company which marketed its products to enthusiasts. Having watched the same enthusiasts theorize and speculate till the cows came home about my products when none of them had ever seen one in the flesh, I cringe when I consider what John goes through everytime he sets out to read a new post as part of relating to his customers. My teeth would be ground to nubbins.

Personally, having been in the prototyping end of R&D and in boutique manufacturing since roughly 1970, I am absolutely amazed at how well the company has their "thing" together in this day of "don't give a damn where profits are concerned" marketing and of soulless Orient production being of generally higher quality than US-made goods or at least better value for money.

Rick started out as one man's vision and remains so, with John the flame's caretaker and a visionary in his own right. What happened to Ferrari when Fiat took over and the Old Man died? What about Leo Fender's company when CBS took it over?

It amazes me that a person can still walk into a store and plunk down a reasonable amount of cash for what amounts to a damned-near-perfect handbuilt and hand finished artifact like a Rickenbacker guitar, fulfilling his dreams from a fairly comprehensive menu of products and options.

Ricks have SOUL. Their unbroken family provenance and the devotion of every single person at that little factory, show in the fabulous instruments they continue to make through a wonderful combination of the "workmanship of risk and the workmanship of certainty" (to quote John Pye, from his "The Nature and Art of Workmanship".

It's a wonder.

[ken_j]

Well said Paul.