Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

A & D strings are fine. G string is fine near the nut. Around 5th to 7th fret on up, string height is too high, getting higher and higher as reaches body. I have the bridge dropped all the way on that side and mostly down all the way on the E string side of bridge. The E string from around 7th to 9th fret on down to the nut frets out. I'm not a heavy handed player either. The E string is fine with the higher frets above the ~9th fret, so I don't think the dropped bridge is the issue. I've adjusted plenty of single truss rod necks, but I'm a little confused on how to fix this action using two truss rods. I'm a little timid on taking too much action until I get some solid advice so I don't make things worse. I have the truss rod adjustment tool from Rickenbacker.

Others will probably chime in here, but I'd suggest a search of the archives...there are several threads on how to adjust the dual rods and the adjusting procedure is different on the older 4001's than it is on the later 4003's...which model and year do you have?

I know HOW to make the adjustments (have read many posts in past; have read the details on the official company website). I just need to know WHAT adjustments to make. (in light of my multiple string height problems) It's a year 2000 4003.

If you have a 4001 you should probably have an expert adjust the rods ... if you have a 4003 you can do it yourself ...

Here in Michigan it gets dry in the winter and humid in the summer ... when it gets dry the wood shrinks and the truss rods need to be tightened down ... in the summer the wood expands and the rods need to be loosened ... my 1968 4001 I used to just raise and lower the bridge ... but to really get good action up and down the neck a truss rod adjustment is necessary ...

so take off the truss rod cover nameplate and get a proper socket tool and turn it ... one way tightens and one way loosens ... flatten out the neck and adjust the bridge until you get what you feel is the best adjustment ... most of my basses get a seasonal adjustment ...

Ok, you didn't really make it clear that you knew how to do the adjustments...just from your description it sounds like you might have a slight S curve in your neck (fretting out on the E and getting higher on the G)I believe that this could be caused from one rod being too tight and the other not tight enough...try loosening the strings and the rod adjustments and basically start fresh.. tightening each rod a little (1/4 turn) at a time.

I have a video that tells you how to set up instruments . It says that there is an order to it . If you change it ... then you must go back to the beginning and recheck .... the order is this ;
1-Tune to pitch
2- check /adjust truss rods
3- check /fine tune nut slot depth
4- check /fine tune saddle radius
5- set bridge height
6- intonate /strobe tune (needs to be done with new strings ... check for fret dents on the 'bottom' of the strings . They cup the frets and change/shift the fret scale if that is the case )
7- set pickup height

The pickups need to be lowered to intonate so the magnets do not have the 'full' strength tugging at the strings ...that causes poor readings if the polepieces are the magnets ...like a Toaster for instance .

I'm not an expert but I've adjusted plenty of Rics in my time.You shouldn't have to put your bridge all the way down, if so that indicates your neck is way out of adjustment. I think your G string side truss rod it way too loose. I would tighten that side first and see if you can bring the bridge up some. Ideally you want the neck anywhere from dead straight, which is what Ric recommends to having maybe one to two business cards of relief at the middle fret with both ends of the string fretted on both the E and the G string which is the way I like them. If it does have an S curve you may not be able to get it perfect, easy does it also, leave the TRC off and keep fooling with it, you'll figure out how to adjust them and how they interact. Sounds to me like maybe the E string side is doing all the work here and the G string side is too loose. I think David is right.
As you tighten the G string side you may find yourself having to loosen the E side. Or as you tighten the G string side the flat section of the E string side may curve a little bit which is what you want. I think you may have your work cut out for you here. I would do one side at a time though, when you get one side good then check the other side, you may have to go back and forth several times to get it right, and this may take a period of some days. My bridges are usually up near the top on my 4003's, only a little bit of the top of the allen screws are showing.
Always make sure it is tuned when you do this, doesn't have to be perfect as I'm sure you probably know as long as the tension is correct.
I always relieve the tension on the neck as I adjust although it is not necessary on a new 4003. I stand the bass on a rug with my right foot behind it so it doersn't slip, I already have the TRC off and tool in hand. I put the top of the body against my right knee and pull back with my left hand at around the first fret to relieve the tension of the forward pull of the strings, then tighten the truss rod and let go and sight down the neck, if the truss rod is very loose as I suspect with the G string side of your bass you can turn it until you feel resistance, then turn it a little more and sight down the neck, etc. Don't force anything though, if the neck is severly out it may take several times to get it right.
You will probably need to intonate it when you are done.

You'll probably need to have the frets pulled and the fretboard planed flat. Sounds to me like you are experiencing symptoms of an S-curved neck. Action will be low and buzzing down at the nut, but quite high from the 9th fret and higher. Since the neck has taken a set, once it's planed flat at the fretboard it should be stable. This is common in wood necks with no graphite reinforcement. My old P-bass developed an s-curve and had the problems you described.

I've never had any luck taking out twist with dual truss rods that are single action. They need to be dual action so that you can literally make one of them counteract the other one, which applies counter torque to the neck twist. Dual single action truss rods can be tightened unequal amounts so that they resonate at different frequencies and reduce dead notes somewhat. Counter twist will be very slight.

Some players like high action because they can actually control the strings better. My Spector clanks and buzzes like John Entwistle's bass when you attack the strings hard because I have it set up Entwistle low. Everything is OK with a light touch and it plays like butter. A neck with more curvature near the heel and straighter from the 12th fret to the nut is best used as a slapper and popper since the action keeps getting higher as you move up the neck and string clank is reduced except when you hammer hard. One like My Spector has most of its curvature up near the nut and is made for a low action and maintains a fairly level action from about the 7th to 24th frets. Also, basses of this type designed for very low action often have a slight amount of "dive" planed into the fretboard from the 15th to 24th frets to prevent buzzing on high notes. It looks a bit like a reverse s-curve as you sight down the neck, because that's what it is.

Lighten up on the truss rods if you have an s-curved neck. If the neck straightens out from the 12th fret to the nut and isn't too high when the bridge is lowered, you have a good neck for high actioned use. Lighter strings like Rotosound nylon tapewounds allow you to really lighten up on the truss rods and you might get an action and sound like a standup bass. That's what I did with my s-curved P-bass, and it worked out OK. You can also string a naturally high actioned bass BEAD because it has floppier strings and needs the higher action.

There is no single neck curvature profile or action height that suits all players and playing styles (or string types). If you get that far along, you need to talk to a good luthier and get the exact curvature profile planed into your fretboard. Otherwise, keep looking until you find the right bass neck like I did. You'll know it when you hold it. Then take a really good look at it and notice what it is you need in a neck. Simple truss rod adjustments do NOT take these nuances into account. Some players might be quite happy with a higher action, in which case you sell your bass and buy another one that suits you better if you don't want to pay a luthier to fit the action to your tastes. James Jamerson would curse my Spector, while Entwistle would be trying to trade me out of it. Just the opposite would probably occur with my Rickenbacker. I am lazy and want really low action so a very slight reverse s-curve works for me.

P.S. I had to go through 5 basses to find one with a neck that really suited my style. It could be argued that it would have been cheaper in the long run to just find a bass that I liked otherwise and then trotted on down to a really good luthier that would have set it up exactly like another neck that I liked on another bass. On a thick necked bass like a P-bass, the luthier has a lot of leeway to plane and shape it to your taste. Thin Rick bass necks don't have as much leeway. When I started out I didn't know what I wanted anyway. Many rich hunters have no problem paying a gunsmith to fit their gunstock to them for length, drop, grip, and cheekpiece position. As one guitar manufacturer stated, he can't compete against rifle manufacturers for the best wood and personal fit to the owner when a rich hunter will pay $10K for a custom rifle with a fitted stock and a musician generally can't top $2K for a guitar. The wood that some guys here go ga-ga over would never get considered for use in some custom rifles I have seen in the $10K category, or furniture that rich people buy. We aren't even going to talk about the intricate engravings seen in custom rifles and practically never seen in basses. Rich guys buy expensive custom rifles and go on even more expensive safaris and sit back in their den and sip scotch and admire each other's rifles while they talk about their safaris and that big water buffalo head on the wall, which probably cost more to ship and mount than your bass did to make. Musicians gripe about paying a luthier $200 to customize their bass neck while a gunsmith down the street is getting $2000 to make a custom stock for Dr. Moneybag's custom Holland & Holland big game rifle. As my father stated recently, in his 80 years of life guitars have never been cheaper. The problems that we gripe about would have been gladly tolerated in his youth. The inferior wood of today will cause more problems with neck stability, and declining wood supplies while demand increases from fancy furniture, gunsmithing, yachtfitting and other high end users will make guitar manufacturers either cut back on quality or raise prices. That's why I've bought my last new bass. You don't know where a new piece of wood will go these days until it has several years of seasoning behind it, and manufactures of sub $2000 instruments simply can't afford wood with 5 years of seasoning like in years gone by. Taylor acoustic guitars, for instance, have been notorious for splitting as of late from what I have heard. Partly due to their thin construction, but the design was probably predicated on wood of better quality in the past. Just another reason that vintage instruments will continue to rise in value. Classical musicians buy the very best instrument they can afford, then keep it for a lifetime, possibly passing it down to the next generation. That way of thinking may need to develop in electric guitars and basses if real quality is to be maintained. Especially if we are to maintain a domestic guitar industry. Classical musicians get their instruments fixed and fitted by highly skilled professionals.

Also, consider Bob's advice to play around with your bass and see how all the adjustments interact with each other. For around $200 you can get a Peterson tuner that will allow you to intonate your bass to a razor edge. I did that rather than paying a luthier $200 to fine tune only one instrument. Once you learn how to set up instruments, the Peterson tuner will allow you in one night to see if an instrument will set up to your liking without resorting to extensive shop work. One thing that I learned was that changing the neck relief changed the intonation in a way that could not be adjusted by changing the saddle longitudional position. Changing the neck relief and/or string saddle height very much from the "design center" specs would render the intonation incapable of being correct at all positions from the nut to 24th fret. If buzzing near the nut and high actioned above the 12th fret, it's highly likely you have intonation problems.

For instance, if you like a straight neck and continuous rising action up the neck due to raised string saddles (say you are a slapper), you may find the intonation may be sharp above the 12th fret and low below the 12th fret although perfect at the 12th. Now if you add neck relief and lower the saddles, the intonation will raise below the 12th fret and decrease above the 12th fret. Action height at the 12th fret will remain approximately the same, but decrease above the 12th fret and increase between the 12th fret and nut. I spent several hours playing around with the 650D after I got it and my Peterson tuner, and when my brother picked it up and played a chord he said, "Hey, this guitar is really in tune no matter where you play it". Exactly.