Rickresource Rickenbacker Forum

Any suggestions on which compressor pedal might give a Roger McGuinn sound when used with Ricky 12 strings? Has anyone tried the Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer? Thanks for any info.

I can't really say it gives a Roger McGuinn sound exactly, but I use the Boss CS-3 with my Rick 12 and a Roland JC-120, and it certainly puts you in that ballpark. It gives a great boost to the sustain, although it's a hair noisier than I would prefer. Noise is just one of the trade-offs for the sustain, I guess. I also find the Boss to be very dependable on the road. The controls make it very tweakable too. I recommend it..heartily:>) (Thanks D.C.)

Jeffery Dunn
Nashville
n/p The Yardbirds "Ultimate" (Psycho-Daisies)

Hi Everyone,

I have just discovered the Rickenbacker forum and have enjoyed reading the posts. After some problems on my part I am now able to post (thanks, Peter).

I have noticed numerous posts asking about getting the sound of the early Byrds both here and on the guitar forum. I know this thread is almost a year old but I thought I would add my $0.02. In spite of the fact that compression was identified as the key some people don't seem to be able to get a satisfactory sound.

I remember reading a couple of different interviews with McGuinn where he says that two copressors were used. The output of one fed into the input of the second. The articles mentioned that they were quite bulky. I don't know what brand was used but they were possibly He added that it was impossible to 'squash' the signal too much. I didn't learn about only using the bridge pick-up until I started reading here.

I have a modeling amp and gave it a try myself. I used a twin-reverb setting with CS-1 stomp-boxes. I didn't use the treble boost. I picked Fender because the Byrds may have recorded on Fender. Based on comments I have seen from other members I suspect someone out there knows exactly what they recorded on. I've seen VOX amps (w/Treble boost) referenced in the threads but I don't think that is part of the equation. I checked on VOXTALK but I didn't find any references.

I kept the gain pretty low, boosted the treble on the amp but left bass and mid at about half-way. Presence was about 7 or 8. Both stomp boxes were turned all the way up. Mark-T, who posted earlier seems to have a good ear so Danelectros may work better. He described the sound better than I could. He also added that they were CEI compressors where I didn't know and thought they might have been Teletronix or Urei units because they were popular at that time.

Because more is always better, I added a reverb, chorus (just a little) and post compression. I kept the ratio at 2:1 as it got ugly at much higher. I also added a noise gate to reduce hissing and add a little more gain. When I plugged in the 360/12 even I was impressed. I didn't A/B it against the record but I have no doubt I was a little over the top. If you're really serious about nailing the sound, start here and back off. Hint: With enough compression my Les Paul could do a fairly passable MTM intro.

I saw the Byrds in a roller rink in Fresno in the '60s. It was the original line-up, minus Gene and I think TTT had just been released. They all used Fender heads with Dual Showman cabs on stage. I seem to remember one of the guys (McGuinn or Hillman) used two cabs side-by-side. I was surprised to see he was using finger and thumb picks. I was amazed at the sheer number of notes he could generate with so little (seemingly) effort that way. I thought I'd never be able to do that (I was right about that one). I seem to remember I was surprised that he played about the 5th fret because I had learned everything in the first position. I think they used Fender amps because of the Fender/CBS/Columbia connection. That's why I think they may have recorded on Fenders, also. That's all I can contribute on this. I hope it helps.

Regards,
Chuck Foster

You have put a lot of time into this -- thank you! It would really be nice if either RIC or Danelectro or Boss or Vox or someone would market the compressor found in the McGuinn Rick (or something close). I always thought it would be cool if Vox (or anyone) added it on to one of their amps! Think they'd sell in a limited edition?

I haven't put nearly as much time into this as Chuck! But I've had excellent results with a Carl Martin compressor pedal, which does a great job of keeping the noise level down (night and day compared to, say, an MXR Dynacomp), through a blackface Bandmaster. I generally set the threshold medium-low (so that single notes are just barely in the compression range, but chords are pretty squashed ... the CM has an LED indicating compression amount, which is very useful for setting this) and the ratio medium-high (not quite a limiter on chord volume level, but getting close). Close enough for me ...

Guys,

Thanks a lot for your responses because, other than what I found out I don't know squat about compressors, especially vintage vs. contemporary. It does look like folks are able to get a satisfying sound using a variety of compressor models. I also remember that the new Vox Valvetronix has a built in compressor effect but I don't know what brand it is based on. Rkbsound, if you try one, let us know how it sounds.

If memory serves (not always a sound thesis) compression was used in the studio to smooth out loud and soft points in vocal tracks. Somewhere along the line, guitarists picked them up (more sustain, I think). Because I was never involved with them I figured that they had about the same settings (attack, ratio, htreshold, response,...) and they sounded about the same. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. I don't want to open another heated topic rivaling "are solid-state amps starting to sound as good as tube".

For that reason I don't know that the RM compressor design has any great benefit other than it was small enough to fit on-board the guitar. If an out-board effect were to be marketed, I don't know if it would be more desireable to have it copy the RM circuitry or the original CEI unit or some other one altogether. I would enjoy reading comments on this topic from those more knowledgable than me. I would always like to learn more.

On this topic, it would be fun sometime (as long as beer was somehow involved) for a group to get a guitar, an amp and a variety of compressors and try to discern any were more pleasing/accurate than others.

Regards,
Chuck

Old tube limiters (i.e. RCA-BA6, UA-175b, CBS etc), plus an old Pultec tube eq, then tracking to 1" analog is the only way to get the early Byrds sound. ICs in the signal path will get in the way for creating a sound from that era.

Murray: Your comments are interesting and fit nicely with those discussed briefly on Roger McGuinn's FAQ's.Thanks. Quote:At first the Rickenbacker didn't have the sound the Byrds were looking for. One of the engineers at Columbia came up with the idea of recording the guitar directly through the board and not through an amplifier, using tube type electronic compressors, in series, to sustain the guitar sound and give it an even quality.

I have had very good luck with a combination of a Marshall compressor pedal and my Digitech RP-7 Multi-FX unit's compressor. I recently bought a 2002 370-12 Mapleglo with vintage pickups (7.4k), and the combination of the guitar & effects has put me right into 1966. I have an old guitar magazine in which Roger says that doubling the compression was a secret to his sound. It makes sense in the context of the 8MH/Why? single. If I use a single compressor, I get the sound of the first two Byrds albums. 5D = 2 compressors. I'm glad I waited until now to get a RIC with the new 7.4K vinatge pickups, as the sound is much more authentic. Sure beats rewinding those things! I love Rickenbacker, but why didn't they get the ohms set correctly back in the 1980's when they re-introduced the toasters? Hmmm.

Jeff J said: Quote:Sure beats rewinding those things! I love Rickenbacker, but why didn't they get the ohms set correctly back in the 1980's when they re-introduced the toasters? A great question Jeff. Only John Hall will be able to answer this with certainly. I suspect that the 1980s toasters, wound with the newer technology, were adequate for the day and it is worth noting that the 1980s toasters do jangle. The scatter-wound technology and a desire to replicate the Carl Wilson model as closely as possible opened the door for the 7.4K pick ups for all instruments. "I was so much older then I'm younger than that now."

Addendum:

I recently acquired a new Line 6 POD 2.0 effects unit, and I must say that its compressor is very strong and has an excellent sound. McGuinn himself could not agree with me more, as he has converted to the POD. In the June 2002 UK Guitar Magazine, he said that he has stopped using his Roland JC-120 AND HIS RICKENBACKER'S SIGNATURE SERIES COMPRESSOR! He had grown weary of changing batteries, hauling a big amp, and the 50-cycle hum that the onboard compressor produces when the venue conditions are just right. He uses the Brit Blues amp model and the 2x12 cab setting (possibly a Marshall Bluesbreaker emulation). You can easily get the JC-120 sound, but who wants to sound like Andy Summers these days? I personally like to use my 370-12 in conjunction with the compressor and the Fender Twin settings. Much closer to the Byrds sound, as they used Fenders back in the day. The Brit Blues setting has a thicker sound than the Fender settings, so I can understand why Roger prefers this for his solo act. Plus, the unit has knobs, just like a real amp. By all means, be the first kid on the block to buy a POD!

Jeff: No amp at all?? Is the POD being run thru the house sound system, or is Roger using another amp besides the Roland?? I had read recently that he was now using a Fender amp of some sort....

I heard the same thing....at least for his solo shows in smaller venues...he just uses the POD through a PA and doesn't use his on board compressor. It must make life on the road much simpler for him too. No roadies needed to transport and setup heavy gear...and his setup is very repeatable and consistent.

Correctamundo, Brian. Straight into the PA, no roadies. Just Roger, the guitars, & the POD (for the smaller venues). Makes soundchecks much easier for everyone involved. I don't know if he uses amps for larger shows. If you only have a POD, you can still hear yourself though the stage monitors, so maybe you don't need an amp after all.