Widening The Playing Area On A 360/12CW

Mason_Dellman · Post by **Mason_Dellman** » Fri Jan 12, 2001 11:32 pm

Mark,

Is there a luthier in the Dallas/Fort Worth area that you know of who would be qualified to refret and cut a new nut for my 360/12 CW? And if you couldn't recommend someone in my area, do you still do those type of modifications? It would be great if I could improve the playability of this guitar.

Thanks

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:28 am

I do this to almost every one of the Rick 12 strings that I work on .NO one has ever asked me NOT to do it.

Sorry I don't know of anyone in Dallas .Mike Stevens is in austin and does Excellent work .

But I don't know if he likes working on Rick 12 strings.

What about the guys at Charlies Guitar shop?

If you want me to do this let me know .

Ed_Jahn · Post by **Ed_Jahn** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 12:01 pm

What do you mean by "widening the playing area"? Would this be cutting the nut so that the octave strings are closer together? This would be a wonderful change to me Rick 12.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 2:13 pm

On a 360-12 the binding is anywhere from .040 to .060 thick on each side .
If you refret the guitar,plane the fretboard (this is to remove any irregularities from time and/or, true up the surface ,then fret with the top of the frets hanging over the top of the binding and ending at the side of the neck .This gives you the same amount of fret as a 330-12 .
then don't round the fret ends as drastic as they are from the factory.
Leave them at a steeper angle .
Now the next thing is to replace the nut.
When laying out the string spacing ,you install the low E and the first High E .

I set them within .020 of the edge of the round over on the fret ends .This is significantly wider than 'Stock'.
Then I get my calculator out and figure out the math for the rest of the string spacing .The pairs/courses are set at .080 to .090 This works just fine .Some of the older guitars that did not have the benefit of laser slotted nuts are not as consistent as they are now .

The ones that I cut when I worked there all need to be redone .But that is something I learned after I left the factory .The method we used was okay for the time ...I have just found out better ways to do the same thing .And the spacing is accurate.

We used an aluminum jig and just hacked away .We had to put out 40 to 55 instruments per day then and there were 3 guys cutting nuts on all the guitars/basses coming through .

In doing this mod ...you use the full width of the neck and gain lots of playing area .
An A in first position is no longer as cramped as the stock version .

You don't change the width of the neck ,just the playing surface/area .The bridge stays the same .

Does this help?

Ed_Jahn · Post by **Ed_Jahn** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 4:15 pm

Is there any way to widen the playing area on an instrument that does not need to be re-fretted? Mine is new but I could use some extra room on those open position chords.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 4:34 pm

Well you need to look at the way the frets were finished off at the edge of the binding and how far to the edge is the round over?

At that point the outside strings can be moved.Then the whole spacing thing can go out that far .But that is the limit

I just did this for Greg Simmons of Edmonton Alberta Canada.Just before The holidays I got him a 12 saddle bridge and he came down and he got the whole deal.
Look under 12 string intonation and see his response.
I did not refret his guitar but took the outside E strings as far as they could go and cut a new nut.The pairs were spaced at .80 .The spacing between the pairs was also widened .This was an improvement for him as well.

This was a really nice instrument .When it was done ,it played,sounded and looked fabulous

Bassman_4080 · Post by **Bassman_4080** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 10:24 pm

Mark,
Would you receommend this same treatment on a 4080/12? The 480 that the 4080/12 is based on is VERY thin and quite difficult to play (especially if you're a bass-player). I have rather bony fingers, but still find it difficult to play even the most basic chords (not to mention some of the bizarre chords I dream up- and the Alex Lifeson-ism's and whatnot). Would this seriously detract from the overall value of the instrument? (it really doesn't bother me if it ultimately makes it more playable). Even my bony-*** fingers are too much for some chords. Or should I just buy a mandolin, woodshed and learn to deal w/ it?

Thanks much.

Bassman_4080 · Post by **Bassman_4080** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 11:28 pm

I should also note that an older Takaminie acoustic 12 of mine is not a bother- but that's a horse of an entirely.....you get the idea. I have taken the octave strings off at times....with some but minimal help. Thoughts?

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue Jan 16, 2001 8:31 am

I'd do this for anyone that finds the spacing too narrow.If it is narrower than a Fender ...They have a 1&5/8" nut width and cut there strings in from the sides .095 to .110 ,but the neck width at the end of the neck flares to 2&1/4"

The Rick necks start at 1&5/8 too but the flare is not as wide and the binding takes up about .060 per side ...plus the string is brought in ? so it can be pushed out to the side /edge farther.On the 12 strings were you are bending strings (I know you can get some vibrato -thats not playing ala SRV or Clapton or Freddie King) I get the string as close to the edge of the fret as I can.This makes a big difference.

Mando lin players would love a wider neck .I do a few of those per year .

Ed_Jahn · Post by **Ed_Jahn** » Wed Jan 17, 2001 7:56 am

Mark,

I am interested in sending you my 360/12V64 to have you do the same work you did on Gene's 12 string.

I looked it over last night and realized it should be done by a pro and not me. Because I don't know of any shops in my area that work on Ricks specifically and this is such a special job, I would rather go through the hassle of sending it out.

Email me to discuss if that is better for you. I do have a close friend in the Seattle area if needed.

Thanks,