Off Topic Gibson J-50

[jcreasy]

This is way off topic but I respect opinions and feedback on here.

I've got a '66 Gibson J-50 that is structurally sound and plays/sounds great but poor finish condition. Guitar was bought for my dad in '66 from Rhythm City in Atlanta and played by him. I got it when I was in middle school and have kept it since then. Just a great guitar. It literally sounds as big as my Jumbo Rick and better than a J-200 I recently bought for a friend.

Here are the cosmetic issues... When lowering the bridge as a young teen, I booger'd up the srew heads. I suppose replacements would be easy to source. A cat chewed on some of the plastic tuning pegs. Again, parts I can probably source and replace. Finish checks, no problem. Big problem, same cat (who is no longer viable for the census) scratched a long gouge in the sound board when attempting to jump up the guitar onto the bed it was leaning on. Basically, a straight line gouge with the grain, into the wood.

Here is what I'd like to do... Have it refinished with light cosmetic resto on the scratch, buy new parts described above, drill a hole in the heel for a strap button and consider a Fishman. To me, that'd bring it back to the guitar I'd want it to be... Am I destroying the value or, are these as common as the basic 360 Rick? To explain the comparison, the bread and butter 360's are great guitars, among my favorite, but not rare at all and I've slowly come to disregard them as closet queens and basically "... put 'em how you want 'em."

This guitar plays and sounds like the gospel, and it seems to me that since it is not pristine, a refinish and retrofit couldn't hurt, but if it would, perhaps, I'll just keep playing it with the lights off and a paper bag over my head. Any feedback appreciated.

In case this adds into your thoughts... Neck great, frets great, binding and pickguard is great. Heavy front checking, nice coloring and aging of the sound board, no cracks or separations, no repairs and the gouge does not go all the way through the soundboard, which I presume is spruce? Other than what I've described, a few fisheye dings from putting on a stand or bumping a latch when putting it away. Other than that... Nothing to report.

Thanks, kids, and appreciate your patience on the off topic.

JKC

PS PW, did you get the 12 String? Haven't checked yet. The 6 is on the way soon.

[0018g]

Are you destroying the value? Probably. More importantly, you may destroy the sound. The top will have to be sanded, hopefully minimally, but sanded none the less. Most problems of this sort can be addressed without a total refinish.

As far as the bridge screws, I would have a repro bridge made with no adjustable saddle. That will usually really wake one of these old girls up. All that hardware acts as a big dampener of vibrations.

As always, a picture would help on suggestions.

[jcreasy]

First and foremost, thanks for the reply.

I'll work on PICs in the next few weeks. In the middle of holidays. There are 3 scratches. 1 one the upper bout about 4 inches and 2 on the bottom lower bout about 3 inches. They barely hit the soundboard and they flow with the grain, so I would think they could be easily repaired or blended.

Can I engage you on some of your comments and invite response?

If I am changing sound (even to a moderately trained ear), then no interest. This thing really sounds beautiful and I do not want to change that. Would a refi hit sound?

As for pulling hardware out of the bridge, since I am happy with the sound now, I am thinking no. Your comment makes sense about getting all wood to wood and stuff, but if I like it, then?

So, what if I accept an ugly but well playing and sounding Gibson and do the Fishman? Does anyone on the forum think a well-installed Fishman dings me in value?

Thanks for your feedback and I'll make sure I send PICs before I destroy this thing! Kidding!

JKC

PS As for value, these things are looking like 1.5k to 3k and the reports are that flat tops from this era were produced in great numbers and not likely to go up in value too much. In other words, am I messing with a Rembrandt or a Time Life Photo? Know what I mean? Any input appreciated. I mainly want this as a player but it will be passed on so I do not want to mess it up from a value/collector point.

[0018g]

A couple more thoughts.....

As far as the bridge, I believe I've seen guys make an insert that goes into the adjustable slot. It's made out of rosewood, and has a slot routed for a bone saddle. You can pop out most of the metal, try the bone, and put it back to stock in minutes. You could try it without modifying the guitar that way. But, if you like the sound, I guess I can see leaving well enough alone, too.

The pickup? I don't have any problem with reaming out the strap pin hole, but if you don't want to they make an 1/8" jack-equipped strap pin that requires no modifications to install. You do need to adapt your guitar cable down from 1/4".

It's best to think long and hard before making any permanent changes, but in the end it's your guitar-enjoy it how you will.

[Clint]

Instead of Fishman, check out the K & K Western Mini. I have them in my Gibson WM-10 and it sounds fantastic.

[0018g]

The Pure Western's are great. I like the fact that a preamp is not a must-have. They work very well in passive mode, they sound great, and they are relatively easy to install.

[iiipopes]

Gibson now uses the LR Baggs undersaddle transducers as a stock item on J-45's. I have one. Even though it doesn't have the adjustible bridge, it did have a composite saddle that damped the tone. I contacted LR Baggs, and they recommend a bone saddle. I installed one and it really opened up the tone.

As far as tuners, I replaced the stock Grover lead weights with Tone Pros Kluson style with the off-white plastic buttons, which gave the guitar the correct vintage appearance and lighter weight headstock. This not only cured the "dive" but also opened up the tone a little more as well.

To complete the upgrades, I bought a bone strap button from Stew Mac and put it in the now-standard "Taylor" position. You can imagine my intrepedation with a dremel drill on the curved heel of a $2000 sunburst finish guitar. But I was slow, careful, and it is perfect.

Frankly, I would not touch the finish on your 1966 J-50. There are ways to fix the scratch; just be thankful it's with the grain. That honey blonde that has patina'd just can't be duplicated. The rest of the parts can be upgraded, and probably should be. There are a lot more choices with hardware, both tuners and bridges, than there were in 1966, with improved quality all the way around. I could never stand the adjustible bridge on Gibson acoustics, and it kept me away from them until they reverted to traditional bridges & saddles when the moved the acoustic works to Montana. Even then it took me several years to find one with just the right balance of tone, projection, feel, and looks. Now, I finally have my dream acoustic that will last me the rest of my life in the family with all my other instruments, including my three Ricks. So I agree with changing out the adjustible bridge with a bone saddle.

Finally, I don't know what it is, but I've tried several different high-quality strings on it. The best strings for evenness of tone, and life of string, are the Gibson phosphor bronze 12's for these guitars. Gibson makes two varities, one for the J-45's and such, and one for the SJ-200's.

[collin]

Frankly, I would not touch the finish on your 1966 J-50.

+100


Leave it. It'll only be original once. Remember, every nick and scratch tells a story (cat scratches and all), and it's now an integral part of the guitar's history. If you want a fresh, brand new looking guitar-- go down to Guitar Center and pull one off the shelf that isn't 45 years old.

None of this stuff should affect the sound, and a refinish (as stated above) would likely negatively affect the tone of the aged wood/finish.

[jcreasy]

Thanks Guys,

I got away from this thread over the holiday. I've decided to leave the finish as is. On the adjustable bridge, I am wavering. This thing sounds big, breathy and full... Bigger than my Jumbo. I am going to do some studying on that. I probably don't have the ear some of you do but if I am happy, I might just leave that.

Regarding pick-ups... I will do some homework on that too.

What is the Taylor mounting? And the heads up on Kluson's with the plastic knobs was helpful.

I am, frankly, torn on this old thing. It is probably the ugliest guitar I own, but plays better (and sounds better) than any acoustic I've ever held... Hands down. I've held and played some pretty nice ones too... But of course that is subjective.

I had this old POS parts guitar that I sold long ago but I was convinced it was the news. I guess the emotions take over.

In any event, thanks again for the feedback. I'll take some PICs and share them before and after whatever upgrades or modernization I end up doing.

JKC