Why did the Vintage Forum disappear?

[apossibleworld]

Sure, it was a little slow going, but I'm sure not going to be checking in here daily. This seems like a funny change to make.

[admin]

Robbie: Thanks for your good question. You will see a brief answer to your question if you look in the Forum Admin & Support Questions subtopic. Vintage Rickenbackers has not gone missing. You will find the content hiding under Rickenbacker Guitars.

All of these separate Guitar areas require a fair bit of organizing and maintenance to keep them in good order. I have limited resources available to do this hence a reorganization was one way to make things more manageable from this end.

For the most part you can find everything about Vintage instruments you want to know by doing a search under the Rickenbacker Guitars forum. I realize that you are not going to be checking in daily, but I was often times dealing with it daily. I hope this explains adequately the reason for the change.

[leftybass]

As Peter said, it is all under the 'Guitars' section now. I will be available to answer questions about vintage Ricks as time permits....

[collin]

What a shame, IMO.

We have a forum for winding pickups, a forum for Gretsch, even forums for relatively obscure bands like the Searchers and Shadows....but we can't get a single forum dedicated to vintage Rickenbackers.....on RickResource

Just don't add up....that has always been one of the main sub forums I've spent time in, and it was a lot more active than some of the "eccentric" forums I mentioned above.

[apossibleworld]

Agreed. I hope the moderators will consider restoring the Vintage forum. I have no interest in modern Ricks (no judgement on anyone else, to each his own), and I doubt I will spend the time sorting through everything if it's all in one big forum. These are topics of separate interest, and vintage guitars deserve their own place.

[admin]

Agreed on all points guys. To be honest there were many posts in modern that were vintage and vice versa. Posters are sometimes unwilling to sort through the files to find what they want and they are also sometimes unwilling to put them in the right place to begin with. That, however, is the life of classifying information in a rather large forum.

I am prepared to work as hard on this as you are. How would you propose we categorize the guitar posts? What will the timelines for vintage and modern be? Just what will the categories be? Vintage, Modern, B series, C series, V Series, Special, Signature, 12 string, 6 string, acoustic. That is step one. Step two is sorting properly. Step three is keeping it sorted. Who is willing to do this work?

Let the discussion begin.

[collin]

Honestly, when the vintage forum was around, it was strange seeing posts about, say, 1982 Rickenbackers that people classified simply because it fit under that "vintage" umbrella.

This is an old discussion, but I don't truly think of late 70s/early 80s Rickenbackers as being truly "vintage" despite their slight differences from 1984-on Ricks. I would consider 1973 the cutoff point, when CPI, 21-frets, toasters and many other vintage appointments disappeared.

I would vote to simply lump all the guitars into two separate forums - Vintage (1954-1973) and Modern (1973-present), skip the multitude of modern subforums - 325 forum, V-series, C-series etc, just pick a date and divide the camp.

Just my $.02 here...

[admin]

Collin, thanks for your comments. Let's see if other members have other approaches to this problem before we consider making any changes. The 325 vintage forum has unique qualitative features which makes sense to keep in my view. As the modern era carries on it is likely that meaningful periods and models will emerge and we may wish to consider this. Certainly most of those visiting will have modern instruments and therefore the interest in this era may be greater. A distinct category that we have yet to include is the 12 string.

[Grey]

This is an old discussion, but I don't truly think of late 70s/early 80s Rickenbackers as being truly "vintage" despite their slight differences from 1984-on Ricks. I would consider 1973 the cutoff point, when CPI, 21-frets, toasters and many other vintage appointments disappeared.

The cutoff date for the Vintage Instruments section was when John Hall took over the company from his father, made several changes to Rickenbackers current production lineup, and discontinued several older models. This is a more substantial change which reflects a shift in the company rather than a few features. I belive it indicates a clear shift from the vintage (F.C Hall) to modern (John Hall).

This is the Rickenbacker Resource Forum, so I believe the ease and access to relevant Rickenbacker information should be paramount. i.e, I belive having seperate forums for vintage and modern instruments is more important than a seperate forum for every band, piece of hardware, other guitar manufacturers, and so forth. If I was looking to limit the ground moderators need to cover, I would start there rather than with the primary information people come here to find.

[admin]

Thanks Erik. You make a valuable point.

Collin has defined the Rickenbacker eras roughly as vintage before 1973 and modern after 1973.

Do you have precise date in mind that separates the Hall eras?

In passing, one would wonder what the point of these fine instruments would be without groups such as Beatles, Byrds, Yes, Tom Petty and so forth.

[Grey]

1984, when F.C Hall retired and John Hall took over the company. It marked the end of an era and many vintage instruments that were still in production at the time were dropped. In my opinion, John Hall modernized the way guitars were manufactured at the factory and began the current era of Rickenbacker production that we find ourselves in.

[collin]

This is an old discussion, but I don't truly think of late 70s/early 80s Rickenbackers as being truly "vintage" despite their slight differences from 1984-on Ricks. I would consider 1973 the cutoff point, when CPI, 21-frets, toasters and many other vintage appointments disappeared.

The cutoff date for the Vintage Instruments section was when John Hall took over the company from his father, made several changes to Rickenbackers current production lineup, and discontinued several older models. This is a more substantial change which reflects a shift in the company rather than a few features. I belive it indicates a clear shift from the vintage (F.C Hall) to modern (John Hall).

While late 70s, early 80s Rics are no doubt good instruments with many fans, there is a massive drop in value between a 1972 Rickenbacker and late 1973. I'm not making this up... the market has determined that these earlier instuments represent the "vintage" period in which production quality, materials and yes, features, were better.

Just ask any vintage guitar dealer. They won't care one iota about a "pre-JH" era or an "FC-era" instrument, but will buy & sell a premium for pre-73 Rics. Idenctical 1982 and 1984 Rickenbackers are worth about the same.

Plus, the number of guitars produced after 1973 dropped big time, which draws a pretty big line in the sand between eras.

[Grey]

We are not dealers, the sale price is irrelevant since this forum is for the equal disucssion of all Rickenbacker guitars. The 1984 change marked a shift in production and John Hall modernized the way these instruments are made today, therefore his ownership of the company should be the best indicator for a split, since "vintage and modern" is all relative. This is a clear change in manufacturing.

[collin]

Non full width inlays (presumably to save costs) were not a manufacturing change?

24-frets were not both a manufacturing change (to improve neck strength) and a consumer change as the changing market demanded different features?

Yeah, some things were changed in 1984, no question...but there is a LOT more change between 1972 and 1974 than 1982 and 1984.

Prices may not be relevant to you or the forum in question, but they represent a clear difference in the public perception of what is or isn't a "vintage" Rickenbacker.

If anything, 1974-1984 is a transitional period between vintage and modern, and until demand (and subsequent prices) of 1974-1984 Rickenbackers starts to soar, I won't even start to be convinced that there is anything that truly differentiates them from mid 1980s instruments.

Besides.....ever see 1974-1984 Rickenbackers in any sort of renowned "vintage" collection, museum, coffee table vintage guitar book or anything else? I sure haven't, or not often. Great guitars they are, classic vintage guitars they are not.

[Scastles]

I have to agree with Collin, one hundred percent. Politically correct it can only be 99.9.
RIC's vintage years are as much about age as they are of original design. Every American guitar manufacturer has their Golden Era, and for RIC the mid to late 50's to the very early 70's, IMHO, was theirs. Having said that I can also think of no American manufacturer who doesn't associate their Golden Era, or vintage period, with more than just the quality or uniqueness of their instrument at the time, but the artist or artists that were associated with that particular instrument during those times. Just think of all the reissues we would have been deprived of?