How much is too much in a live rig?

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cassius987
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How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by cassius987 »

When I play a gig and the majority of my sound gets funneled through a line out to the mixing board and ultimately the house PA system, people often give me good reports of the tone, such as last Saturday. So I am not threatened at all by this approach as opposed to micing my cab where I may have a little more control over the tone. (They still have to deal with my preamp stage, anyway, and in spite of some trepidation on my part most PA systems represent my effects like champs.) So after a little while of getting used to this approach and seeing it work really well, I begin to feel like my cab is bordering on redundant at these shows. It's designed to push bucketloads of air but on stage it gets drowned up by all of the turned-up guitars, the keys, the drums, the SPDS, all of the various vocals (my band has a pretty dense mix). I barely even hear it -- I'm better off getting bass in my monitor, oftentimes.

Still I can imagine there will be times when a cab would come in handy -- especially if poor PA support ever comes up. But my fEarful 15/6, which I love by the way, just seems like too much cab for the job at these shows. It sounds amazing of course, but that doesn't matter if it contributes nearly zero to the resulting sound. Rather than lug the 15/6 around I'm thinking it might be time for a smaller, simpler replacement that would just shoot a simple, no-crossover signal at me when needed so I need things aren't going completely to hell. I'm thinking some kind of combo that I will be able to hear on a loud stage if it's pointed at me (maybe stand-mounted for proper height) and will also sound good miced, but doesn't necessarily do the thundering lows of the 15/6 or the PA system.

On the flip side just about every gigging bassist I talk to brings something as big or bigger along, and many of these guys are legitimate pros and veterans, not weekend warriors like me. Maybe they are onto something bringing those big cabs all the time--I'm just not sure what it is. :lol: I will say this... the handful of times someone has miced my cab for a show it has sounded quite magical, even if taking a line from my preamp stage has been way more practical in lots of situations. The Kappalite 3015LF driver really captures the low notes with a clarity and heft I have not heard elsewhere except a good PA... which is what got me looking at a fEarful in the first place.
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rikk
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by rikk »

I prefer micing my cab if the soundman will do it, I have a post out on my amp most of the time they take that. I may be playing some shows where I will have no amp and going direct. (Bad back) I'm a bit scared at the notion of no amp on stage. But people tell me they do it.
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jps
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by jps »

cassius987 wrote:On the flip side just about every gigging bassist I talk to brings something as big or bigger along, and many of these guys are legitimate pros and veterans, not weekend warriors like me. Maybe they are onto something bringing those big cabs all the time--I'm just not sure what it is. :lol:
Looks! It gets more girls. :wink:

What amp are you using? Why not just get a smaller cabinet, something like a Crazy 8x8 (or whatever it is called) or like my LDS 286?
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T28
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by T28 »

Well you already have one of the best sounding cabs on the planet with a fEARFUL 15/6 but they are big.

I opted to go with a 12/6/1 and a 12/sub make out of fiberglass and the results are stellar.
The majority of gigs I play, the 12/6/1 is more than adequate but for the bigger ones I just add the 12/sub.
I constantly receive compliments on how good my bass sound is (and occasionally that I play good bass!)

My 12/6/1 tips the scales at under 30# and the 12/sub is closer to 20#.

What part of Colorado are you in? Maybe at one of your gigs when I am free you could give the 12/6/1 a try.
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Badanovski
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by Badanovski »

I've had this discussion with band members all the time. I have a 3way cab. At the few really big gigs we've done It gets 1 mic. The math is so wrong. I'll give the sound guy the DI feed from the back of the amp & tell them not to bother with a mic. It will sound glorious at sound check. 3 hours later I'll go up to play & find they have a mic on the woofer & no DI. I love highs so for me it sounds like ****. I can't hear my amp over the side fills anyway. I feel why bother bringing a cab just so they can screw my sound up. The other members of the band feel you have to have an amp on stage. I guess it's not Rock & Roll without an amp?
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cjj
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by cjj »

Badanovski wrote:I guess it's not Rock & Roll without an amp?
Definitely, unless you're these guys...
BackAmps.jpg
I have NO idea what to do with those skinny stringed things... I'm just a bass player...
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Badanovski
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by Badanovski »

That's great!! I saw a giant blow up SVT stack at the Ampeg booth at a NAM once. I thought that would be a great backdrop. :mrgreen:
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cassius987
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by cassius987 »

jps wrote:What amp are you using? Why not just get a smaller cabinet, something like a Crazy 8x8 (or whatever it is called) or like my LDS 286?
TC Electronic Classic 450. Not a traditional or popular choice AFAIK but I have been quite pleased with it. I would definitely be interested in smaller cabs for gigging. Not sure if I want a one-way or two-way. I know many people complain about micing two- and three-way cabs but, at least with two-ways, there is usually a "sweet spot" that catches both drivers well if the cab is built properly. In the studio its usually just the woofer that gets miced.
T28 wrote:What part of Colorado are you in? Maybe at one of your gigs when I am free you could give the 12/6/1 a try.
I am in Denver, I am playing in Golden this Friday if that's a possibility... 8) I'd love to try your cab, it would be a natural "downsize" from my bigger fEARful. I bet the 3012LF sounds great. I want to see that awesome-looking 4004 too!
Badanovski wrote:I've had this discussion with band members all the time. I have a 3way cab. At the few really big gigs we've done It gets 1 mic. The math is so wrong. I'll give the sound guy the DI feed from the back of the amp & tell them not to bother with a mic. It will sound glorious at sound check. 3 hours later I'll go up to play & find they have a mic on the woofer & no DI. I love highs so for me it sounds like ****. I can't hear my amp over the side fills anyway. I feel why bother bringing a cab just so they can screw my sound up. The other members of the band feel you have to have an amp on stage. I guess it's not Rock & Roll without an amp?
I don't know the first thing about micing a three-way design, but in my fEARful 15/6 there is a spot between the circumferences of each driver that captures both equally. I've also found if you favor the woofer a little in the placement you don't lose much of the mid driver, so that's the approach I take in the studio.
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Badanovski
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by Badanovski »

Maybe I'm just lazy but I say for small local gigs, yes use a cab. For gigs with real sound support & recording, leave the cab at home.
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jps
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by jps »

cassius987 wrote:...I bet the 3012LF sounds great...
You should hear two of them, together! 8)
Jeff-800_1226.jpg
Sorry for the lack of focus, here!
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T28
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by T28 »

Ah Joshua, this Friday is a bummer cause I got a gig out in Lone Tree but a trip to Golden to see you play and use the 12/6/1 would have been sweet.
Is it just a one night gig or Fri/Sat? Where are you playing in Golden?
I just live south of Red Rocks near Ken Caryl Valley so it would have been a close trip.


When's your next one and we will try to hook up. (I think our next gig is around Sept 7th so anything between then and now?)
I have to admit, I love to hear my how my fEARFUL sounds from the audience when we are playing a gig so to hear someone else play through it would be awesome!
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T28
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by T28 »

jps wrote:
cassius987 wrote:...I bet the 3012LF sounds great...
You should hear two of them, together! 8)
Absolutely!

and if you want to use the stack Joshua we could do that to.....
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cassius987
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by cassius987 »

T28 wrote:Ah Joshua, this Friday is a bummer cause I got a gig out in Lone Tree but a trip to Golden to see you play and use the 12/6/1 would have been sweet.
Is it just a one night gig or Fri/Sat? Where are you playing in Golden?
I just live south of Red Rocks near Ken Caryl Valley so it would have been a close trip.

When's your next one and we will try to hook up. (I think our next gig is around Sept 7th so anything between then and now?)
I have to admit, I love to hear my how my fEARFUL sounds from the audience when we are playing a gig so to hear someone else play through it would be awesome!
The Golden show is at Buffalo Rose for just that evening. The next one is after September 7th I believe, at Bender's Tavern in Cap Hill, and I think the date is actually the 14th. Where is your gig on the 7th?

I totally agree that it is fun to hear your gear played by someone else so you can get a sense of how it sounds. I do that with basses and rigs whenever a good opportunity comes up.
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T28
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by T28 »

Duke's Tavern out in Aurora off of Mississippi and Havana. Be cool for you to come out if you are free.
Should be playing the 4004.

PM me when it gets closer to the 14th and we will try to hook up so you can use the 12 /6/1 or if you make it out to Dukes we can talk about it then.
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iiipopes
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Re: How much is too much in a live rig?

Post by iiipopes »

I've downsized from prior larger rigs. I now use my Carvin MB-12 combo for both double bass and electric bass, and if I need that bottom 1/2 octave extension, I took out of retirement a small ported 1X15 cab on casters that fits under really well so I have a very small footprint on stage. The casters de-couple the floor so there is no rumble, and my line out is switchable pre/post eq.
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