Help! I need somebody! Help! I am a semi-beginner guitarist (playing around 2 years) with large long hands and fingers (I'm 6' 6"). I am in love with Rickenbacker guitars. I have two awesome Ricks--a 650E Excalibur and a fireglo 360/12 v64. The 650E has great tone and sustain and good playability for me because of the wider neck.
The 360/12 v64 looks wonderful and sounds heavenly, especially in the stereo mode through my 2 Fender tube amps (70s Champ and mid 80s Super Champ). I put on new Ernie Ball 9s and had it intonated by a Rick dealer. It is truly one of the most beautiful guitars ever made.
But that beautiful slim neck is a challenge for these large fingers and hands. I also have slight nerve damage in my index and long finger (in the tips) on my left hand which makes chording a little harder.
I also have a Dano 12 which was very cheaply acquired. Obviously, it does not begin to hold a candle to the 360/12 v64, but practically speaking, it is much easier for me to play and sounds ok with some compression/sustainer and a sometimes a little chorus. I definitely don't need to have two 12 string guitars.
My question is that practically speaking , the Dano 12 string is a lot easier for me to play at this time. Is there any advice for this dilemma? Maybe putting on 8s? I assume that as I get better at playing guitar, the slim neck will no longer be a challenge. I would love to be able to play the Rick without bumping into the next string when I am playing. I know that all of you love Ricks also, so thanks for any advice/suggestions that you may have.
360/12 v64 and challenges with slim neck
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
The gauge of string is not what makes the guitar play easy ...this is almost ONLY true on electric 12 strings.
Your guitar needs to have
the setup checked ;
1-the truss rods set with the least amount of relief.
2- the depth of the nut slots checked and adjusted
3-the saddle slots radiused with the TOP of the strings following the 10" radius.NOT the bottom.
4-the bridge height set
5-the strings of your choice installed
6 intonation adjusted
7- the pickups adjust for height.The bridge pickup needs to be the closest.
Then adjust the neck pickup to match the volume level.
I just setup Rick Wilson's Rick 12 string ...you can see a photo of me holding this beautiful instrument at the Rick Registration page.Read about what Rick had to say under the 'Ask a Rickenbacker Luthier 'section.
Your guitar needs to have
the setup checked ;
1-the truss rods set with the least amount of relief.
2- the depth of the nut slots checked and adjusted
3-the saddle slots radiused with the TOP of the strings following the 10" radius.NOT the bottom.
4-the bridge height set
5-the strings of your choice installed
6 intonation adjusted
7- the pickups adjust for height.The bridge pickup needs to be the closest.
Then adjust the neck pickup to match the volume level.
I just setup Rick Wilson's Rick 12 string ...you can see a photo of me holding this beautiful instrument at the Rick Registration page.Read about what Rick had to say under the 'Ask a Rickenbacker Luthier 'section.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
one other thing ....go looking at my postings about 12 strings here....All mmy opinions are based on bench time and I give reasons to WHY.
Go check them out .
Yes the Dano neck is wider ,yes it may play great,all the 12string players in the world who are worth a damn own a Rick.
For some reason ....they must be correct.
I think that you have setup troubles.Rick Wilson had no help in New Mexico ...so after he had some guys look at it ......it ended up in my hands.
Go check them out .
Yes the Dano neck is wider ,yes it may play great,all the 12string players in the world who are worth a damn own a Rick.
For some reason ....they must be correct.
I think that you have setup troubles.Rick Wilson had no help in New Mexico ...so after he had some guys look at it ......it ended up in my hands.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
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tallville
Mark the MD, thanks for the valuable input. I did take it to a dealer in town who was a Rick dealer up until a few years ago. My 360/12 v64 was purcased from them in 1996 and my 650E in 1991 or so. Their tech did an intonation on it, but I'm not sure what he actually did in relation to your info. I'll show him your suggestions.
I know very little about this sort of thing, so my next question is how will the setup and intonation improve/affect the challenge I have with the slim neck? It will still be slim. I appreciate your feedback.
I know very little about this sort of thing, so my next question is how will the setup and intonation improve/affect the challenge I have with the slim neck? It will still be slim. I appreciate your feedback.
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VW
Tallville,
I feel for you in more ways than you could know. But I'll keep the story short. I have nerve damage to my hands due to my real job over many years. It's called "Hand/Arm Vibration Syndrome". I have also lost a small part of my middle finger tip on my left hand from an accident. No, I'm not handicapped, but playing as well as I used to offers a little more of a challenge to me. But that's OK. Such is life.
It is because of those things that I am most comfortable with the small neck of the RIC.
The trick for me, and I think you as well, is to teach yourself how to play differently. There are many ways to chord so try varying the way you do it. For example, just about everybody chords an A with the three middle fingers of their hand. I do it with two and achieve a clear chord that's easier and faster to play. I'll also play the D chord with only 2 fingers as well depending on where I'm going from there. And it's pretty obvious that lead licks are much easier to play on a RIC.
If you simply accept that the small RIC neck is actually easier to play, you'll find ways to play it easier. It's just that you became used to "regular" necks on other guitars where you HAD to throw in all the fingers you could just to make it sound right.
The guitar I actually learned to play on was a 365 Deluxe so I self-taught myself the best way to play a RIC from the very beginning. Ever since then, any other guitar I have played feels clumsy to me. But when I then pick up and play that wonderfully small RIC neck again, I feel like I can play again.
Start with Mark the MD's advice and make sure it's set up right to begin with. After that, just play the hell out of it, and pretty soon, other guitars will feel like just another "axe" (literally).
VW
I feel for you in more ways than you could know. But I'll keep the story short. I have nerve damage to my hands due to my real job over many years. It's called "Hand/Arm Vibration Syndrome". I have also lost a small part of my middle finger tip on my left hand from an accident. No, I'm not handicapped, but playing as well as I used to offers a little more of a challenge to me. But that's OK. Such is life.
It is because of those things that I am most comfortable with the small neck of the RIC.
The trick for me, and I think you as well, is to teach yourself how to play differently. There are many ways to chord so try varying the way you do it. For example, just about everybody chords an A with the three middle fingers of their hand. I do it with two and achieve a clear chord that's easier and faster to play. I'll also play the D chord with only 2 fingers as well depending on where I'm going from there. And it's pretty obvious that lead licks are much easier to play on a RIC.
If you simply accept that the small RIC neck is actually easier to play, you'll find ways to play it easier. It's just that you became used to "regular" necks on other guitars where you HAD to throw in all the fingers you could just to make it sound right.
The guitar I actually learned to play on was a 365 Deluxe so I self-taught myself the best way to play a RIC from the very beginning. Ever since then, any other guitar I have played feels clumsy to me. But when I then pick up and play that wonderfully small RIC neck again, I feel like I can play again.
Start with Mark the MD's advice and make sure it's set up right to begin with. After that, just play the hell out of it, and pretty soon, other guitars will feel like just another "axe" (literally).
VW
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tallville
VW: Thanks for relating your similar situation to me. Sounds like you've turned a lemon into lemonade! I like your philosophy towards your Ric guitar(s).
I make the open A with one finger, but how do you make the open D with less than 3 fingers? Are there any other shortcuts to chords you can suggest? I am still "bumping" my fingers into the next set of strings but am working on strength and coordination, ie, practicing. Thanks again.
I make the open A with one finger, but how do you make the open D with less than 3 fingers? Are there any other shortcuts to chords you can suggest? I am still "bumping" my fingers into the next set of strings but am working on strength and coordination, ie, practicing. Thanks again.
I had a similar fingering problem for the opposite reason . I have very small hands and fingers. My problem was the position of my thumb at the back of the neck. I had been pretty slack when playing a wider necked 12 string acoustic but when I bought my Ric I couldnt get away with it . After several weeks I learned to arch my wrist more so that my fingers tips were more vertical.A pain in the knuckle to start with but .......
Now I am enjoying a clean sound ( most times)
John
Now I am enjoying a clean sound ( most times)
John
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VW
Tallville,
It probably isn't practical nor totally helpful for ME to tell YOU how to finger the various chords. In fact, I tend to play around (pun intended) and finger the same chords differently at different times. It's sort of both a mental as well as physical exercise for me that I think helps me to keep my nerve damaged hands more limber.
The main point I was trying to get across is the suggestion that you look at every chord in an original way and try making up your own fingering. Try several different ways for each and you will quickly arrive at fingering combinations that work well for YOU. Think of it as the musical equivilant to the business principle of "thinking outside the box".
Don't necessarily do what other people do; do what works best for you. You can only find out what that is by playing and experimenting.
John Westwood's note just reinforced my point: When he changed guitars, he found his old style didn't work so he simply worked with the RIC and found a new style that worked better. Like John, I found that a RIC is best played by getting used to arching your wrist around more and generally playing with your fingertips more vertical. And I think if you try getting used to that as well, you'll find that your fingers won't seem to bump into adjacent strings any more as you mentioned.
Personally, I get weary of some of the guys whining about the Rickenbacker "skinny" neck that they "can't" play. During the six year period I played in bands in the late 60's, I don't recall anyone else who played RICs ever make that comment.
John W. easily discovered that the RIC neck IS an incredibly easy neck to play once you just do it.
VW
It probably isn't practical nor totally helpful for ME to tell YOU how to finger the various chords. In fact, I tend to play around (pun intended) and finger the same chords differently at different times. It's sort of both a mental as well as physical exercise for me that I think helps me to keep my nerve damaged hands more limber.
The main point I was trying to get across is the suggestion that you look at every chord in an original way and try making up your own fingering. Try several different ways for each and you will quickly arrive at fingering combinations that work well for YOU. Think of it as the musical equivilant to the business principle of "thinking outside the box".
Don't necessarily do what other people do; do what works best for you. You can only find out what that is by playing and experimenting.
John Westwood's note just reinforced my point: When he changed guitars, he found his old style didn't work so he simply worked with the RIC and found a new style that worked better. Like John, I found that a RIC is best played by getting used to arching your wrist around more and generally playing with your fingertips more vertical. And I think if you try getting used to that as well, you'll find that your fingers won't seem to bump into adjacent strings any more as you mentioned.
Personally, I get weary of some of the guys whining about the Rickenbacker "skinny" neck that they "can't" play. During the six year period I played in bands in the late 60's, I don't recall anyone else who played RICs ever make that comment.
John W. easily discovered that the RIC neck IS an incredibly easy neck to play once you just do it.
VW
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tallville
I posted my question on this forum because I am new to guitar playing, love Rickenbackers, and have a real challenge with my fretting hand and fingers because they are large and my finger tips are slightly numb/weak from permanent nerve damage.
I got some valuable feedback which has already greatly helped me in playing my Ric, the feedback gave me confidence in my abilities so I just sold the Dano 12 yesterday, thanks for the great thoughts! But I was asking for help because I want to overcome this challenge and succeed at playing this guitar, I am/was not whining.
I got some valuable feedback which has already greatly helped me in playing my Ric, the feedback gave me confidence in my abilities so I just sold the Dano 12 yesterday, thanks for the great thoughts! But I was asking for help because I want to overcome this challenge and succeed at playing this guitar, I am/was not whining.
Tallville: Thanks for initiating this topic. I have learned from your post and feel that you have given all Rickenbacker players something to think about. Each of us will one day face an obstacle that makes our participation in life a challenge. I am glad that you are able to play on and that this Forum has assisted you. The best of luck in your endeavours. 360/12V64 forever!
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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tallville
Peter, thanks for the encouragement. This is a little awkward, but here's the rest of the story. Originally trying to learn by using an acoustic, I would be embarassed to reveal how many times I started and stopped trying to learn guitar over the last 15 years because of my lack of strength-I could hardly make even an open D, C, F, let alone any barre chord. For some reason, I never considered an electric.
Then I bought an electric guitar and then came across the 650E Excalibur by fate, and wow! The electric guitar was a lot easier for me to play. Even though I love 6 string electrics, I did miss the "folky" full sound of the acoustic, and by another turn of fate recently I came across the Dano 12 and then even better, the 360/12 v64, and wow again, I love the 12 string sound even more than an acoustic! And now, the Dano's gone and the Rick 12 is it, much in part to this excellent Forum. Thanks again, Mike.
Then I bought an electric guitar and then came across the 650E Excalibur by fate, and wow! The electric guitar was a lot easier for me to play. Even though I love 6 string electrics, I did miss the "folky" full sound of the acoustic, and by another turn of fate recently I came across the Dano 12 and then even better, the 360/12 v64, and wow again, I love the 12 string sound even more than an acoustic! And now, the Dano's gone and the Rick 12 is it, much in part to this excellent Forum. Thanks again, Mike.
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VW
Tallville,
I apologize if you thought I was referring to you about whining. If you continue to read posts from lots of people who have played "conventional" guitars and then pick up a RIC, you will see that many do indeed whine about the narrow RIC neck. I did not take the questions you asked as whining and in fact am in perfect empathy with you because of our shared difficulties. And even though I have been playing various guitars since I was a kid, I also now share your difficulty with playing on standard acoustic guitars that used to be easy for me but now require more finger pressure. (I have both six and twelve string Ovations that I hardly pick up anymore. It hurts!)
But I do find it annoying that so many talented guitarists, who went through what it took to learn to play the guitar in the first place, just can't figure out how to adapt to what I believe is a better guitar BECAUSE of it's smaller and easier to handle neck.
Rock on.
VW
I apologize if you thought I was referring to you about whining. If you continue to read posts from lots of people who have played "conventional" guitars and then pick up a RIC, you will see that many do indeed whine about the narrow RIC neck. I did not take the questions you asked as whining and in fact am in perfect empathy with you because of our shared difficulties. And even though I have been playing various guitars since I was a kid, I also now share your difficulty with playing on standard acoustic guitars that used to be easy for me but now require more finger pressure. (I have both six and twelve string Ovations that I hardly pick up anymore. It hurts!)
But I do find it annoying that so many talented guitarists, who went through what it took to learn to play the guitar in the first place, just can't figure out how to adapt to what I believe is a better guitar BECAUSE of it's smaller and easier to handle neck.
Rock on.
VW
After fiddling some more with the bridge saddles on the low e pair on my 360/12v64 last weekend, I plugged it in last night and I really like this guitar! It plays so nicely - but you can't just play it like any guitar. I think every time I pick it up, it takes me a song or two to adjust to the feel.
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tallville
VW-no problem, your insight was pivotal in my continuing on with the Rick, "skinny legs and all" (my apologies to Joe Tex and Rickenbacker, just a joke. Thanks! Since your info was meaningful to me, I told the rest of the story, hopefully it will be meaningful to someone else. I agree, rock on!! Mike
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Ann