Toasters: Old vs. New vs. "C" & "V" seri

kalimusic · Post by **kalimusic** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:50 pm

I searched the archives but found nothing that answered my specific question:
Do the Reissue Toasters in the C and V series sound like the originals?
I was hoping some of you avid collectors with originals would let us know if you've done a side-by-side comparison.
thanks!

roadrunners · Post by **roadrunners** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:38 am

I know that The 325C58's are different from the generic toaster pickup....or so I was told

jps · Post by **jps** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:50 am

I think it is difficult to say whether the new scatterwound (VS) toasters sound the same as the originals, because to make a valid comparison you would have to go back in time and compare the VS to an original toaster when it was new. As a pickup ages it's tone changes, therefore you can not fairly compare, say a '60s toaster, to a new vintage toaster by listening to them in this day and age.

Folks over at the FDP are always debating this very subject. Do the vintage reissue pickups Fender make sound like the originals when new or as they sound today.

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:03 am

I think Ric has considered this when they issued the 7.4 scatterwounds a few years back. I had unwound five of my own toasters to get down to that 7.4Kohm and it really makes a difference.
So the V series toasters needed some work because they were wound to like 12 or 14K. But all of the C series have the new 7.4 scatterwounds EXCEPT for the 325C58 which are even lower in resistance - like 5.3 or something.

brianbb · Post by **brianbb** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:36 am

Having owned several vintage as well as newer Ricks I have noticed differences in each. To my ear the HiGains are naturally pretty hot and scatterwounds are very bright. Vintage toasters I've heard are both, very hot yet bright and chimey. This is especially true of my 1962 425 and 1967 365. The scatter wounds are just as bright but lack the punch, and sound more compressed. Older toasters from the 1990's were much darker and a little hotter than scatterwounds. I have not heard the C58 so I can't comment on them.

loverickbass · Post by **loverickbass** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:20 am

The toasters on my '91 381_12v69 sound like highgains in a toaster package. Very Hot!

Cole

brianbb · Post by **brianbb** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:48 am

J.C., I had a 1994 381v69 Turquoise!!! that sounded just like you describe. Very hot and darker than scatterwounds. I wish I still had it. It could play anything from jazz to jangle.

loverickbass · Post by **loverickbass** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:53 am

Yup, it's got a great sound to go along with it's looks. Flats really sound awsome on her. That guitar is the hottest one I own. I have to turn all the gains,volumes,etc down when I use it.

Cole

kalimusic · Post by **kalimusic** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:53 am

Thanks for replies.
Brian,
Your reply speaks directly to my question and confirms what i've experienced. I have found the old pups to be much more punchy and full with more high end clarity and definition than reissues. The reissues seem thin in comparison. Thus, the "V" and "C" series can capture the look but not the sound of the Originals, in my opinion.

brianbb · Post by **brianbb** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:58 pm

Murali, I agree with you that the Vs and Cs can capture the look but not the sound. The arguement over whether scatterwounds are supposed to sound like old toasters today or old toasters when new is an interesting question. I think they are designed to sound like old ones today because people want the vintage sound. That's all there is for comparison, unless you listen to recordings. And you can't listen to a 40 year old pickup that's not 40 years old.

kalimusic · Post by **kalimusic** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:13 pm

Brian,
I have a '58 Gr__ch Duo Jet and a 2004 reissue. I liked the sound of the new one 'til I took delivery of the '58. The new one will be up on ebay as soon as i have the time to do an auction. The r.i. is truly a wonderful instrument to play: great action and resonance. But there is NO COMPARISON in tone. Just sounds thin and brittle next to the '58.
I suspect this will be the case when i get my hands on a late 50's early 60's Ric, too. Can't wait!

Again, in my opinion, there ISN"T any argument about "scatterwounds" v. original. The originals sounded wonderful when new and still sound wonderful today. You can listen to a brand new 40 year old pickup, but through a brand new 40 year old amp: as you say, in recordings. I hand-build amps so i'm very aware of how important the entire signal chain is to tone.

But playing a vintage instrument is a sensual experience; it's not just sound, it's feel and something spiritual as well. You could plug one into a Walkman and still get what it's got because it's truly there in the instrument.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:25 pm

every toaster that I have tested is around 7.4k ohms ... they are all scatterwound ... the main difference between the old and new toasters is that the old ones have degaussed a little which makes them a little weaker ...

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:59 pm

"You can't listen to a 40-year-old pickup that's not 40 years old."

This is either an old Groucho Marx routine, or maybe it's an example of Heisenberg's Pickup Uncertainty Rule.

kalimusic · Post by **kalimusic** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:00 pm

Jeff,
This is not meant to be contentious, but the main diff?
how about 40 year old wire, bobbins, pole pieces, lacquer, solder, etc.? None of the new stuff is the same composition as the old is it?

kalimusic · Post by **kalimusic** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:02 pm

Paul,
Ya had to be there, man.
LOL