I think the 4 string bass will continue to outsell the 5 string bass for a few years to come. Most players start out on a 4 string and many players who have played a 4 for a long time have difficulty changing from a 4 to a 5. It took me about 6 months before I became comfortable playing a 5 string bass. I had been playing 4 string for 12 years before I bought my first 5 string bass 19 years ago.
The 5 string might sell in higher numbers in a few years. I play a 4 string very little for the past 15 years and even then, it has to be detuned.
Will the Rickenbacker 5 String Take Over?
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rickenbrother
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Musical possibility is limited in part by the capabilities of the instrument. Extending an instrument increases the musical possibilities of that instrument. Of course, player ability figures huge in the equation too. After all, Jaco did some amazing things with just 4 strings. I might be proven wrong but I believe the 4 string bass will be around for many years to come.
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jwr2
I was very anti 5 string bass for a long time ... for 25 years I played an unmodified 1968 4001 ... yep with the cap and the horseshoe and the mute intact ... but I got into a band that played modern music so I needed a low D note ... so then I had my Ric tuned to E my p-bass tuned to E flat and a Jazz Bass tuned to DGCF ... but then some songs need a low D flat ... So I got a 4003s5 and one bass could do it all and it sounded better than my old 4001 and p-bass and jazz bass ... they all got sold and now I only play 5 string basses ...
When they first started making electric basses in the 50's the technology lent itself more to a 4 string bass rather than a 5 string bass ... first there is the issue of strings ... the old flat wound strings of the 50's and 60's would lose defination when you got down to the low E note so using that string technology to make a low B would not work so well ... then the necks on basses weren't as strong back then either ... and the amps weren't really set up to reproduce those frequencies ...
then there is human nature ... most people like the music that they grew up listening to ... they then go through their whole life listening to that music ... last year I met an old goat who thought that polka was the only good music ... he could not understand why his grand daughters did not want to go polka dance with him ... I am 50 ... I grew up on the Beatles, Yes, and the music from that era ... also there is human physiology ... a young brain is very adaptable ... as we get older we get conservative ... we start to not like change ... I used to think I don't want to relearn a new way to play bass with an extra string ... I like the old way ...
But I retrained my brain and my fingers to work with five string basses ... it was not easy ... I had to work at it until it became automatic ... like tying my shoes ...
So will the 5 string bass take over and will the 4 string bass become obsolete ... well ... the 4 string bass is here to stay ... it is a classic instrument ... but the 5 string bass is here to stay as well it is also becoming a classic instrument as well ... look at the country music videos ... most of them have 5 string bassists ... go to a church that has a band ... there is a good chance the guy is playing a 5 ... rock music from 1980 to the present quite often HAS to have at least a low D on the bass ... or go to a blues jam ... about half of the bass players will have a 5 ... and I find that a five string adds a lot to classic rock ... old songs like "Jumpin Jack Flash" or "Come Together" or "All Right Now" or even "Johnny BeGoode" can benifit from the expanded range ...
Where a low B sounds bad is when the low frequencies are turned up too much and it gets boomy and rumbly ... and I am not a fan of active electronics because the mid punch gets lost on a lot of active basses ... I prefer single coil passive basses or passive series humbuckers ...
When they first started making electric basses in the 50's the technology lent itself more to a 4 string bass rather than a 5 string bass ... first there is the issue of strings ... the old flat wound strings of the 50's and 60's would lose defination when you got down to the low E note so using that string technology to make a low B would not work so well ... then the necks on basses weren't as strong back then either ... and the amps weren't really set up to reproduce those frequencies ...
then there is human nature ... most people like the music that they grew up listening to ... they then go through their whole life listening to that music ... last year I met an old goat who thought that polka was the only good music ... he could not understand why his grand daughters did not want to go polka dance with him ... I am 50 ... I grew up on the Beatles, Yes, and the music from that era ... also there is human physiology ... a young brain is very adaptable ... as we get older we get conservative ... we start to not like change ... I used to think I don't want to relearn a new way to play bass with an extra string ... I like the old way ...
But I retrained my brain and my fingers to work with five string basses ... it was not easy ... I had to work at it until it became automatic ... like tying my shoes ...
So will the 5 string bass take over and will the 4 string bass become obsolete ... well ... the 4 string bass is here to stay ... it is a classic instrument ... but the 5 string bass is here to stay as well it is also becoming a classic instrument as well ... look at the country music videos ... most of them have 5 string bassists ... go to a church that has a band ... there is a good chance the guy is playing a 5 ... rock music from 1980 to the present quite often HAS to have at least a low D on the bass ... or go to a blues jam ... about half of the bass players will have a 5 ... and I find that a five string adds a lot to classic rock ... old songs like "Jumpin Jack Flash" or "Come Together" or "All Right Now" or even "Johnny BeGoode" can benifit from the expanded range ...
Where a low B sounds bad is when the low frequencies are turned up too much and it gets boomy and rumbly ... and I am not a fan of active electronics because the mid punch gets lost on a lot of active basses ... I prefer single coil passive basses or passive series humbuckers ...
I doubt it very much, even today the vast majority of music with electric bass is played on a 4 string. 5 string players are in the minority now as they have been ever since it's inception during the 60's. I had one for a little while, the extra low notes were interesting but pretty useless unless I was playing a stylized type of music which calls for it like soft jazz, modern ¿country music? or nu-rock, haha! The first 5 string I ever saw was the Fender V and it had a high C rather than a low B, the're pretty rare.
JH has stated in this forum that there would never be active Rics with batteries.
JH has stated in this forum that there would never be active Rics with batteries.
Dave: I am not entirely sure that my impression that the five stringers are increasing in demand can stand up to academic scrutiny. This was, at least in part, one of the reasons for my question to begin with.
When I go into my local music store I often seen younger musicians huddled around someone playing a five string. Nashville gigs on the television and local gigs often sport a five string.
Does the bass player make the bass or does the bass make the bass player? Perhaps I am too old to learn the new notes on the bottom B.
I do admit that, as a guitar player, I am guilty of tuning the bottom E on my 6 string to a D occasionally, so even as a guitarist I buy into extending the scale occasionally. Somehow the 4 string bass just feels right to me and when I do play bass that is where I am likely to stay.
There are many interesting answers here. I can't wait to see the argument for the five string.
When I go into my local music store I often seen younger musicians huddled around someone playing a five string. Nashville gigs on the television and local gigs often sport a five string.
Does the bass player make the bass or does the bass make the bass player? Perhaps I am too old to learn the new notes on the bottom B.
I do admit that, as a guitar player, I am guilty of tuning the bottom E on my 6 string to a D occasionally, so even as a guitarist I buy into extending the scale occasionally. Somehow the 4 string bass just feels right to me and when I do play bass that is where I am likely to stay.
There are many interesting answers here. I can't wait to see the argument for the five string.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Jeff: You have really covered the basses with your detailed response. It turns out that the answer to this question is fairly complicated. I guess I may have to go with the elastic laces.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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Peter I have been regularly tuning my E down to D for years for certain songs. That was a style and fad during the late 70's, a lot of hit songs such as Devil Woman by Cliff Richard had the tuned down E to D, many others during that same period. That was why the hipshot drop D tuner came about, was in response to that style. I just do it by ear. 5 stringers are nice if they are used tastefully.
The history of the bass should be considered. A friend told me that the traditional bass had only three strings up until the late 1840's. A famous composer, whose name escapes me now, wrote a composition that was widely acclaimed and really required a bass with 4 strings to play it properly. That triggered a great, mad rush to convert virtually all the existing basses from three to four strings and today evidence of a conversion is used for construction dating purposes.
Is this an evolutionary repeat of history?
My friend, by the way, is in the process of getting an advanced degree in organology at a major old world university. I gave him some grief about his chosen field of study until he explained it's the study of musical instruments- not playing them, but understanding their history and construction.
Is this an evolutionary repeat of history?
My friend, by the way, is in the process of getting an advanced degree in organology at a major old world university. I gave him some grief about his chosen field of study until he explained it's the study of musical instruments- not playing them, but understanding their history and construction.
Flatwound E strings have definition, in fact much more that RW's, there is a simple reason the first electics were four stringers: because they were modeled on and tried to emulate upright basses. 5 string electric basses have been made for at least 40 years now, I haven't seen any mad stampede in that direction since I started playing in 1966. The low B is an extra string for certain stylized styles of music, nothing less, nothing more. The 4 string is the industry standard in electric basses, has been for 53 years and will continue to be for a long time. The new rock music is one stop on the radio dial out of many different types, the same with country music.
They are used more nowadays that previously but they are kind of like fretlesses, some bass players use them and like them, but most don't.
They are used more nowadays that previously but they are kind of like fretlesses, some bass players use them and like them, but most don't.
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jwr2
Bob ... I was not talking about modern strings ... the old strings were different ... John Entwistle had to work with Rotosound to get them to make an E string that had proper definition ... and now days some 5 strings sets are all good except for the low b string ...
and yes younger players are more likely to go with a 5 than older guys ... so I see the market share for 5 string basses growing ...
I like John Hall's statement that the whole idea of bass is evolving ...
and yes younger players are more likely to go with a 5 than older guys ... so I see the market share for 5 string basses growing ...
I like John Hall's statement that the whole idea of bass is evolving ...
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jwr2
You started an interesting and thought provoking thread, Peter. Excellent!
Although I'm a 4-banger that's satisfied by the possibilities of note combinations on 4 strings and who also feels the wide 5-string (not to mention 6-string) necks and headstocks look odd and out of proportion to the body, I do understand that some music genres indeed need bass notes that are lower than E, especially those that need sustaining low end or require the bass to share the low pulse responsibility of the kick drum, like Gospel, Country, Nu-Metal and Trance.
In my engineering and producing career, I've recorded and mixed a few songs in which the bass player played a 5-stringer and used the low B string a lot. As the low B string basically occupies the same frequencies as the kick drum, it's quite often that the low bass notes overshadow or fight with the the kick and make the music muddy and lose the focus on the down beat impact. Naturally, to maintain good balance, you have to cut or filter out the very low frequencies (like below 150 Hz) either on the bass or the kick to get things less "crowded" down in "the basement", or simply suggest to the bass player and the drummer to leave some "pockets" for each other.
Here in my country, I see lots of professional bassists backing the vocal stars with 5-string basses just in case some of the songs were originally recorded with synth bass sounds that go way down, note-wise. However, in the studio, most songs that contain real bass parts are recorded with the bassists opting for 4 strings.
For me, a RIC bass, especially the 4001/4003 varieties, with 4 strings is more aesthetically pleasing than their 5-string counterparts. That said, I'm not excluding the possibility of myself getting a 4004 Cii/5 someday "just in case" I need some low B.
Although I'm a 4-banger that's satisfied by the possibilities of note combinations on 4 strings and who also feels the wide 5-string (not to mention 6-string) necks and headstocks look odd and out of proportion to the body, I do understand that some music genres indeed need bass notes that are lower than E, especially those that need sustaining low end or require the bass to share the low pulse responsibility of the kick drum, like Gospel, Country, Nu-Metal and Trance.
In my engineering and producing career, I've recorded and mixed a few songs in which the bass player played a 5-stringer and used the low B string a lot. As the low B string basically occupies the same frequencies as the kick drum, it's quite often that the low bass notes overshadow or fight with the the kick and make the music muddy and lose the focus on the down beat impact. Naturally, to maintain good balance, you have to cut or filter out the very low frequencies (like below 150 Hz) either on the bass or the kick to get things less "crowded" down in "the basement", or simply suggest to the bass player and the drummer to leave some "pockets" for each other.
Here in my country, I see lots of professional bassists backing the vocal stars with 5-string basses just in case some of the songs were originally recorded with synth bass sounds that go way down, note-wise. However, in the studio, most songs that contain real bass parts are recorded with the bassists opting for 4 strings.
For me, a RIC bass, especially the 4001/4003 varieties, with 4 strings is more aesthetically pleasing than their 5-string counterparts. That said, I'm not excluding the possibility of myself getting a 4004 Cii/5 someday "just in case" I need some low B.