New 330 with Vintage Pickups question

zekmoe · Post by **zekmoe** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:49 am

I've been thinking of ordering a 330 Blueburst lately. I currently have a 360 Burgendy, 360/12 Fireglow, both with HiGains, and a 450V63 reissue from a few years ago. Aside from the intonation issues on the fixed bridge 450V63 which render it virutally unplayable, the pickups in it are very weird. Very bassy for the neck pickup and plinky type trebbly for the bridge. Again, "unique" but virutally useless as a guitar. I like it as a wall hanging though. But I read all the love here for the toaster pickups. My thought was to order a new 330 with the vintage pickups, but my fear is that it will sound like the 450V63. There is no way everyone loves those pickups if they sound like that. Anywone who has played this 450 thinks it's broken. How extremenly different are the vintage pickups to the higains, when matched to a standard 330? I don't really need another Ric, as the 360 is great and one of my main players. But I love the look of the new finish and wanted a second usable 6 string. What should I expect? Will I get those thin and bassy extremes with the vintage pickups, or will I get a variation on the sound I like, which would be a good thing?
Thanks

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:59 am

Bob: Before you put the 450V63 out to pasture, why not give it a second look. You can remove the cap from the treble pickup circuit and that will give you a thicker and less brittle but nice treble tonality. Second you can add the cap to the bass pickup circuit which will roll off some of the bass. These are easy fixes that are completely reversible should you not like the result.

I suspect, however, you will leave the modifications in tact and play your model 450V63 routinely. My two cents.

While you are assessing this modification, why not take some detailed photos of the wiring under the guard that we can post of this model.

Finally, with regard to intonation, it is certainly possible to put a modern 6 saddle bridge on the 450V63 bridgeplate. With a bridge cover added, the appearance is acceptable and the intontation first rate. Also, the modifications are reversible, save the four tiny holes holding the bridge in position on the bridgeplate.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:01 am

Bob, I have posted on this several times. IMO the 24 fret necks are not toaster friendly. The pick up spacing is just too close to get the best out of toasters. If you want toasters, then go to a 21 fret model. The p/up spacing is wider, which allows the tone to come through as it was meant to be. This will only be noticed on both, or neck p/up only of course.
There will be others who disagree, but I have tried all combinations & when you think about it, toasters were designed to go with the 21 fret neck spacing.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:07 am

Tony: With regard to the Model 330 I appreciate your comments. The 450V63 is a reissue and as such has 21 frets and so there is no good reason which there should not be a great sound from this guitar.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:17 am

Peter, I was referring to the 330 that was mentioned. The 450V63, I would suggest that there is either something wrong with Bobs gtr, or the solid body just isn't for him. I must admit that I was horrified with the sound of my 360 with toasters. I just couldn't believe that anyone could use that thin, trebley sound. As you know, I have since become a big fan of toasters on my 21 fret neck thinlines.
I have found the Ric thinlines & the solids to be totaly different animals, with totaly different sounds, all be it with a common family trait. I have always found the solids to be a little 'harder', sound wise than the thinlines & I can imagine that some people would find a solid body/toaster equipped gtr a little on the 'thin' side, especially if you are not after that '60's sound. Again, IMO, the pick up spacing on a 24 fret thinline with toasters, is getting close to the sound of a solid body 21 fret gtr with toasters.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:22 am

Tony: I suspected that you must have been referring to the Model 330.

I have had good luck with making changes in tonality by adding or removing capacitors.

I don't disagree with your observations only that there are so many factors involved that some tweaking can make quite a difference.

The position of the pickups, their construction and ohm rating, the guitar construction and numerous other factors are all involved here.

jcreasy · Post by **jcreasy** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:39 am

Hmmm... I've got taosters on my two 360's... A six and a twelve... I use the fifth knob to roll in the bass. When I am playing distorted I use less bass, when I am playing clean, I roll more in. Both guitars sound very good (very Rick). Neither has a cap...

Never played a 21 fret with toasters... Does it really make that much of a difference? Maybe my ears aren't as discerning as I think they are.

While we are on the topic... I have always used round wound 10's (DR's) and the standard Rick twelve string set. Am I really going to notice a change in Pyramids or is that just hogwash?

Regards,

JKC

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:06 am

Peter is absolutely right. We can make generalisations about what we can expect from a certain guitar / pick-up etc, but the variables are immense. I have had two seemingly identical 360's (at the same time) & yet both sounded differant.....why? I have had enough Rics through my hands to have noticed trends, but at the end of the day, just try it. If you don't like the toasters, then just change them for hi-gains & vice versa. I still think however, that the p/up spacing DOES make that much of a difference. It is quite a big difference in spacing, so even before you hear it, reasoning has to suggest that you will get a better bass response with a neck p/up further away from the bridge.

Pyramids...I tried them & hated them. Ric strings help to get that Ric sound. There are many that will disagree however, so once again...give them a go Jim. If you don't like them, then just go back to what you use now, or try others untill you are happy.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:09 am

Jim: With regard to Pyramids, you will notice a different in tonality and playability.

The RIC set is first rate in my books and I switched to Pyramids and back again. If you are a string bender take note, you can ruin your conntective tissue if you plan on bending Pyramids.

The Pyramids are much stiffer, harder to hold down and tougher on the fingers. Switching to Pyramids on your 12 will require a truss rod adjustment.

The sound of Pyramids is nice but there is a trade off. I will stick with the RIC strings on my 12 strings for now, but I was never disappointed with the sound of Pyramids.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:12 am

Peter....we have hit the post button at the same time several times on this thread......this must be something that we are both very interested in!

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:11 am

I'm kinda new here and I have only been playing guitar for about 6 months but I have a new 340 with 3 toasters and it sounds great! This is my second Ric,my first was a 325C58 Hamburg JG but I don't have that guitar anymore .

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:44 am

Good point Mitch. A 3 p/up toaster on a 24 fret neck will give more bass response & will help with the overall tone.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:35 pm

Tony: I have just finished my homework with regard to the sound of toasters on my 24 fret Model 350. I have started a new thread after this one.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:04 pm

Mitch: I agree. The neck and middle toasters on the 340 are wired together. For a demonstration of the sound of the neck toaster pickup alone give this a whirl.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:10 am

Great work Peter!

It would be interesting to compare the same series of sound bites with a standard thinline & a solid body.