John Entwistle and 4001's

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:28 am

How long did it take for your sound concept to begin developing?

Well, I’d learned to play by ear, by playing along with records by Eddie Cochran, Gene Vincent, the Ventures, Buddy Holly, the Shadows, and especially Duane Eddy — his guitar had the sound I wanted my bass to have. When I began experimenting, I still had a sort of thuddy, boomy bass sound, but I remember a turning point a few years later. We had our first hit record with the Who, “I Can’t Explain”, and showed up at a big hall for a concert only to find the place empty because the promoter had forgotten to promote it. So we decided to make use of the situation by having a rehearsal. I had a Rickenbacker bass and Marshall amps at the time, and after we started playing, our manager came up to me and said, “it’s all very well, you playing that fast, but I can’t hear the notes you’re playing in the back. Why don’t you try putting a bit of treble on it?” I’d always been tempted to turn up the treble but didn’t dare, because bassists just didn’t do that. So I opened up the treble on my amp and bass and started playing like Duane Eddy.

That was the turning point, but what I didn’t realize was that I’d set quite a task for myself, because you can’t play sloppily using that much high end. I had to clean it up and find a fluid way of damping the notes so they didn’t blur into each other or vary in volume.

http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/equipment/bass/equip-entwistlegear-60-66.html

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:40 am

There are lots of Rickenbackers on this page, Townshend with one I've never seen before.

mgauction · Post by **mgauction** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:30 pm

I have seen Entwistle in only a few pix with a 4001. When I went to London in 2003 for the sale of his guitars/basses there was a good abundance of Ricks in his collection.

Here is the Wal that I got and a picture of him holding it:

mgauction · Post by **mgauction** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:31 pm

Bob - Any chance you can make the confluence in May? I have a lot of the 'others' we could talk about.

wints · Post by **wints** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:28 pm

He only had his RM1999 a short time in early 64. It's neck warped very quickly. By mid 64 it's gone and that was it for Rics until the 4005 and the proto white 4001/8 like Squire has.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:52 pm

I doubt it very much Mike, I'm graduating from school in May and have to study for a test in July, but the real problem is LOB, lack of bread.
I'd like to though, there are many Rics I've never seen except in photos such as the 4005, 60's 4001's etc. Would be nice to actually meet some of the people that I have been exchanging ideas with here for two years now also.
Where is it Ohio?

mgauction · Post by **mgauction** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:01 pm

Columbus. I have a decent arcenal of various basses, other than Ricks that you would enjoy talking about: Wals, EB-1, Precisions, Kustoms, Carl Thompson, Abe Rivera, Hofner, Steinberger, Alembic, JayDee.

Good luck with your test, though.

beatlefan · Post by **beatlefan** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:35 pm

Bob....study HARD!! Because it's gonna be HARD to keep your mind off of all these fantastic Ric's assembled in Columbus!! We'll post some unique pics for you....

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:58 pm

I studied Entwistle's playing for many years ... I love that wide open over the top aggressive live playing style that he did on Live at Leeds and Kids are Alright ... but towards the end of his life he had too many effects ... I have a CD of John Entwistle band live ... and the bass sound gets annoying ... too much gain ... he lost something that he had in his earlier days ... with bass a little bit of effects goes a long way ...

apollo11 · Post by **apollo11** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:27 pm

I think his effects use was just what he was about, which was a pioneering bass player all through his career; he was forever pushing the envelope. Effects aside, from a technical standpoint, I think he got better and better until the day he died. His playing never declined; it always developed throughout his life and he was a trailblazer until the end. A giant of the bass world, and the best-ever bassist, in my opinion.

As for Live at Leeds, you'd be hard-pressed to find any better live playing. It is as good as any studio work in rock.

Jeff, you mention the CD of his band--I have the DVD of the J.E.B. in concert, and although excellent, the bass doesn't get pushed to the fore. The recording isn't great, so the bass gets lost in the mix.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:37 pm

I saw him twice in little clubs with his band about 4 years ago, in one of them I was about 5' from him, he did have a huge rack full of stuff, I thought he was phenomenal although I too like his earlier stuff like Live at Leeds better too, he was simply a great rock bassist back then with less effects.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:03 am

I've always thought that great players like John were always on a quest for something different, so for him, maybe it was changing basses, or using effects, or whatever he did to try and push himself into different areas or inspire himself in a different way. When you can do anything you want to do on an instrument, it's hard to challenge yourself.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:09 am

There are some really great players who don't understand gain structure ... for instance volume and gain are not the same ... when I play live I have a volume control on my bass, I have a bass pod with volume, and gain, and effects, I have an ampeg head with volume and gain, it is miked into a PA with a mixer, and again there is volume and gain ... in fact there are 3 or 4 stages in a good PA with volume and gain .... If at any point in that chain the gain is too high then the signal get's too distorted and the signal gets lost in its own noise ...

If the gain structure is too hot or too cold then it will sound bad at any volume or mix ...

I have played with guitarists who wanted more balls and sustain and turned up the volume to get it ... what they really needed was more gain ... and when they turned up the volume to get it they got too loud ...

scanman17 · Post by **scanman17** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:38 pm

have any of you watched the restored dvd of the kids are alright? on the second disk there is a pretty cool isolated cam and track on entwistle. it has baba o' reilly and won't get fooled again. the latter is especially fantastic. the bassline is like a beautiful journey. it's really a cool little extra feature. i highly recommend that dvd

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:53 pm

I have the restored dvd and the original vhs tape and the vinyl lp ... they really cleaned up the woodstock footage on the dvd ... but the Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again tracks were a little better on the VHS tape and old vinyl ... I really love those 2 songs ... I programed my keyboard to play won't get fooled again ... and that bass rig Entwistle uses on that video of those 2 songs is truely impressive ... and the sound is truely awesome ...