While it may not be fair to compare these products as they all have a slightly different application, I thought it might be interesting to here what others think of them.
I find that Scratch X does very well in the removal of swirls and small scratches on the clear coat, especially those most noticeable on black finish instruments.
Zymol, smells nicer, if you like coconut, but while it seems to clean well, I don't find it removes minor swirls as it claims. It also behaves quite differently from Scratch X and Turtle Wax, and has an almost oily film that is difficult to buff out by hand. Perhaps Paul will give me a lesson on this.
Turtle Wax (white cap) mixed 50/50 with water buffs up very nicely for the final shine but by hand does little to remove minor scratches or swirls.
Each has its own application I suppose and as I say trying to compare them may not be fair. I would be most interested in your comments.
Zymol, Scratch X and Turtle Wax
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Zymol, Scratch X and Turtle Wax
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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I sort of like the way Zymol finishes up but I did get the sense my guitar had been at the beach. I wasn't really sure if I had cleaned it or put Coppertone tanning lotion on it. Think I will try the Turtle Wax the next time, which was recommended.
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Music is too important to be left to professionals.
Music is too important to be left to professionals.
I have found that a very little bit of Zymol goes a long way. It also seems to require more buffing than the Turtle Wax. I did get the sense that it was restoring the clear coat rather than just covering it, however, I may have read too many adds with regard to this product.
I am waiting to hear from Paul when he gets back from the beach.
I am waiting to hear from Paul when he gets back from the beach.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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jingle_jangle
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Back from the beach and burning the Midnight Oil...
Zymol differs from Turtle Wax and similar products in two ways, both having to do with chemical composition.
I've owned a good number of classic cars and discovered Zymol when I got very frustrated keeping my '69 Silver Shadow, which was painted a very dark non-metallic blue-violet, looking fresh and non-hazy. I've used it ever since on anything I want to look wet and where there are tiny buffing scratches to be filled.
Turtle Wax and other liquid waxes (and many automotive paste waxes, too) have kaolin in them, and also as I've mentioned, a petroleum base. The petroleum base and kaolin work hand-in-glove, so to speak, to make the wax "easy-to-apply and dust-off" when you're doing a large area such as an automobile. The highly volatile solvent evaporates very quickly, leaving a powdery residue in which the wax itself is a component. Most of this powder, however, is kaolin, which is a very, very refined and pure clay powder. After the petroleum distillate evaporates, the kaolin is dusted off and the wax is left in the paint's pores.
The petroleum solvent also functions to strip the previous wax coat from the finish as you are laying down the new coat. So you cannot build one coat on top of another.
Rickenbacker recommends Turtle Wax 123 liquid, and, indeed, I noticed bottles of it in the assembly area of the Rickenbacker plant.
Zymol is a different item entirely. It was especially formulated for someone's (Ralph Lauren's, I believe) dark-colored Bugatti when it competed in the Pebble Beach concours some years ago, and has been sold ever since, growing into a whole line of premium car-care stuff. It is composed of a whole bunch of natural oils which are emulsified in a water base and combined with pure carnauba.
If you slather Zymol on as if it was a typical car liquid wax, your guitar will feel greasy. Zymol is meant to be used very sparingly, and rubbed into the surface, where it will fill the pores and swirl marks. Several coats can be built up, giving a perfectly reflective surface. You apply it with lots of rubbing (that's why the soft cloth--I use recycled cotton diapers), and the rubbing is the key. You don't put it on and wait for it to dry, then buff it off--there is nothing to "dry". The water will evaporate in the rubbing process. The Zymol people say that it "feeds" paint, and I agree. This is the impression you get, Peter, that it's "restoring" the finish.
Now--SCRATCH-X. When I built cars for auto shows for Mazda, we used a scratch remover compound made in Germany for stubborn spots of adhesive and small scratches, in prepping for show days. Meguiar's, seeing a good thing, in 2001 came up with their own version, which is superior to the German stuff. That's SCRATCH-X. It's wild stuff, because it can take paint or clear coat from dull and scratched to glassy smooth, with lots of rubbing, and not leave any scratches of its own.
This is because the abrasive breaks down as you use it into smaller and smaller particles until eventually it stops cutting period. GREAT stuff--try it on a hazy Jetglo guitar and that finish will come to life. Work on a very small area at a time (1" square) and don't use a circular motion. My 660-12 had some minor buckle rash when I bought it new, and thanks to SCRATCH-X, and about a half-hour of dedicated labor, it's perfect now.
Zymol differs from Turtle Wax and similar products in two ways, both having to do with chemical composition.
I've owned a good number of classic cars and discovered Zymol when I got very frustrated keeping my '69 Silver Shadow, which was painted a very dark non-metallic blue-violet, looking fresh and non-hazy. I've used it ever since on anything I want to look wet and where there are tiny buffing scratches to be filled.
Turtle Wax and other liquid waxes (and many automotive paste waxes, too) have kaolin in them, and also as I've mentioned, a petroleum base. The petroleum base and kaolin work hand-in-glove, so to speak, to make the wax "easy-to-apply and dust-off" when you're doing a large area such as an automobile. The highly volatile solvent evaporates very quickly, leaving a powdery residue in which the wax itself is a component. Most of this powder, however, is kaolin, which is a very, very refined and pure clay powder. After the petroleum distillate evaporates, the kaolin is dusted off and the wax is left in the paint's pores.
The petroleum solvent also functions to strip the previous wax coat from the finish as you are laying down the new coat. So you cannot build one coat on top of another.
Rickenbacker recommends Turtle Wax 123 liquid, and, indeed, I noticed bottles of it in the assembly area of the Rickenbacker plant.
Zymol is a different item entirely. It was especially formulated for someone's (Ralph Lauren's, I believe) dark-colored Bugatti when it competed in the Pebble Beach concours some years ago, and has been sold ever since, growing into a whole line of premium car-care stuff. It is composed of a whole bunch of natural oils which are emulsified in a water base and combined with pure carnauba.
If you slather Zymol on as if it was a typical car liquid wax, your guitar will feel greasy. Zymol is meant to be used very sparingly, and rubbed into the surface, where it will fill the pores and swirl marks. Several coats can be built up, giving a perfectly reflective surface. You apply it with lots of rubbing (that's why the soft cloth--I use recycled cotton diapers), and the rubbing is the key. You don't put it on and wait for it to dry, then buff it off--there is nothing to "dry". The water will evaporate in the rubbing process. The Zymol people say that it "feeds" paint, and I agree. This is the impression you get, Peter, that it's "restoring" the finish.
Now--SCRATCH-X. When I built cars for auto shows for Mazda, we used a scratch remover compound made in Germany for stubborn spots of adhesive and small scratches, in prepping for show days. Meguiar's, seeing a good thing, in 2001 came up with their own version, which is superior to the German stuff. That's SCRATCH-X. It's wild stuff, because it can take paint or clear coat from dull and scratched to glassy smooth, with lots of rubbing, and not leave any scratches of its own.
This is because the abrasive breaks down as you use it into smaller and smaller particles until eventually it stops cutting period. GREAT stuff--try it on a hazy Jetglo guitar and that finish will come to life. Work on a very small area at a time (1" square) and don't use a circular motion. My 660-12 had some minor buckle rash when I bought it new, and thanks to SCRATCH-X, and about a half-hour of dedicated labor, it's perfect now.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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jingle_jangle
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Yeah, John, SCRATCH-X is pretty amazing stuff. It is unlike anything I've ever run across before.
Because these are water-based products, they won't soften an old finish. The only caution would be if the finish is checked badly--these materials will collect in the cracks, just like any wax.
If I had a '60s Jetglo to try it out on, I would not hesitate. Remember, my late'60s car was my first shot at this, and it was nitro lacquer from the factory!
Conversion varnish is much more durable than nitro, so I recommend it highly on this type of finish.
Because these are water-based products, they won't soften an old finish. The only caution would be if the finish is checked badly--these materials will collect in the cracks, just like any wax.
If I had a '60s Jetglo to try it out on, I would not hesitate. Remember, my late'60s car was my first shot at this, and it was nitro lacquer from the factory!
Conversion varnish is much more durable than nitro, so I recommend it highly on this type of finish.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Thanks Zy .. I mean Paul. I very much appreciate the benefit of your experience and your detailed description of Zymol versus Scratch X. I do get the sense that the results from Zymol leave a "wet look" shine.
You are right, tiny amounts, small areas, patience, and using a more linear motion seems to yield the best results.
Well I am now off to the finish line.
You are right, tiny amounts, small areas, patience, and using a more linear motion seems to yield the best results.
Well I am now off to the finish line.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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jingle_jangle
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Took me awhile there, Peter, but I think you meant tiny amounts, just for clarity's sake.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Back after more experimentation. Phew, I would hate to do a whole car using Zymol. I would have to put my hammock in the garage. My amplifier too.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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jingle_jangle
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I feel your pain...
Did my car with it yesterday. Took two hours. Car looks great.
Peter, could you possibly be more anal-retentive than me?
Did my car with it yesterday. Took two hours. Car looks great.
Peter, could you possibly be more anal-retentive than me?
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
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jingle_jangle
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If it's an injection.molded TRC (Raised Rickenbacker logo), it all depends upon the source of the yellowing. If it's just surface yellowing from tobacco, you can get most of it off by polishing with SCRATCH-X, but there will still be some yellowing that is in the plastic.
If it's UV yellowing, nothing will take it out, because it goes deep into the plastic itself.
Besides, polishing around those raised letters is a bear.
Plexi doesn't yellow a whole lot. Maybe you'll see some in a '50s pickguard, but nobody in his right mind would mess with that.
And I don't expect that any of the white 'guards will exhibit yellowing, unless (again) it's surface "bar burn", which you can easily polish out.
If it's UV yellowing, nothing will take it out, because it goes deep into the plastic itself.
Besides, polishing around those raised letters is a bear.
Plexi doesn't yellow a whole lot. Maybe you'll see some in a '50s pickguard, but nobody in his right mind would mess with that.
And I don't expect that any of the white 'guards will exhibit yellowing, unless (again) it's surface "bar burn", which you can easily polish out.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Ok thanks - I'll try Scratch-x on the TRC - it is a '70's raised type. I'd get another one, but it is the type that has the model number stamped on it... 
Another Zymol question: What product are we talking about. I see one called "Cleaner wax" and another that is called "Carbon Wax". I also want to try this stuff on my car - it is dark blue. I think I need "Carbon wax" for the car, but I can't tell. Help!
Another Zymol question: What product are we talking about. I see one called "Cleaner wax" and another that is called "Carbon Wax". I also want to try this stuff on my car - it is dark blue. I think I need "Carbon wax" for the car, but I can't tell. Help!
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jingle_jangle
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John, Cleaner Wax is sort of a one-step treatment for older paint. Carbon Wax is for dark-colored paint. Go with the Carbon Wax.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
