Gain Vs. Volume

rob · Post by **rob** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

What's the difference?

I have a Fender BXR200 with a gain knob. Looking this amp up on the internet, I've seen people who own these amps posting that they don't like a gain knob, and prefer a volume knob. Since the loudness is controlled by a gain/volume knob, I would reckon they're both the same darn thing only with two different names.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:16 pm

Well, a couple of my amps have both knobs. The gain knob increases the signal in the preamp stage, whereas the volume does the same in the amp stage, post-processing and post-built-in-effects. My little VOX practice amp also has an effects blend knob, which allows mixing the effect with the pure signal.

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:27 pm

I believe Paul is correct - gain for signal in, volume for out. Increasing the gain can also introduce much higher levels of unwanted hum and electrical interference.

I usually set the gain at a high volume level so that I can reduce the amount of noise to a minimum and then back off on the volume.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:52 pm

I've seen it opposite too, I prefer non master volume amps. My guitar player uses old White Fender Bassmans' and cranks them for power tube distortion, sounds great in most rooms, in a few you want to block your ears.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:18 pm

Bob: We used to have a bass player that thought that his volume was the groups' gain.

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:22 pm

That'd be right, Peter!!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:55 pm

gain and volume ... gain adds sustain, distrtion and balls ... volume adds volume ...

too much gain or too little gain both suck ... I play with 2 guitar players ... one understands gain structure and as a result has his tone totally under control ... the other has great chops but doesn't understand gain and volume ... when he wants more sustain on his leads he turns up his volume ... the problem is he gets too loud ... what he needs is more gain ... another time he had too much gain and his guitar was too hot and buzzing ...

In my band each player has an instrument with volume controls, the he has a processor with volume and gain, then an amp with volume and gain, then every speaker cabinet is miked into a PA with 2 or 3 stages of gain and volume ... so at every stage the gain and volume have to be balanced ...

another time I went to an open jam and a guy was doing techno music with turntables and CD players ... the problem is the signal was too hot and it had too much gain ... so no matter what volume the PA was set to it was distorted ...

too little gain and the signal lacks balls and presence ... too much gain and it is clipping and distorted ... a compressor can help even out the gain, especially if you are an aggressive bass player ...

does that help explain gain and volume ...

maybe a good studio engineer type can chime in ...

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:10 pm

You are right Jeff, a compressor can make quite a difference and I would argue that this also applies to guitar players.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:15 pm

They are both volume controls, it is very simple, one is the preamp volume and the other is the power amp volume (the names don't matter), they are both variable resistors just like in your basses, they are just in different sections of your amps, an amp is really two amps in one, a pre amp and a power amp, the old amps only had a preamp volume and the power amps were run full tilt all the time. Now you can turn down the power amp volume and turn up the preamp volume to clip the preamp tubes and can control the overall volume with your power amp volume.
The terms volume, master volume and gain are interchangable. On my little SS Ampeg the preamp volume is marked gain and the power amp volume is marked master volume, it's all semantics, and has changed several times over the years and is still not uniform. New bass amps have preamp controls and masters because of active basses, they overdrive the preamps of many amps, in the old days before them you didn't need master volumes as most basses put out approximately the same amount of signal.
You are supposed to get the sound you want with the preamp volume (gain) and then set the volume with the master volume (volume).