Who's good with 4001 Rods?

[rickaddict]

Okay, I know the truss rod issue has been beaten to death, but...

I'm able to get all of my Ricks with the modern rods to the point where the neck is arrow straight. But I have 4 4001's from the late '70's that are not as straight. Last weekend I decided to take a stab at adjusting one of them. I had my future wife help me by snugging down the truss wrench as I held the neck in place(By the way guys, I'm being very careful here how I use words like rod, nut, tool, twist, hold or firm when discussing this problem...but I have a feeling...)

Anyway, what do you have to do here? First I tried to position it straight and snug down the rods. It did nothing. Then I tried a little back bow. Again no difference. Then a lot of back bow. Nothing. Finally, I used gorilla force; one hand down by the nut on the front of the neck, one hand on the back at around the 9th fret...my face turning red from the effort...my lady snugged down the rods...(!) This last effort got the neck pretty close to as straight as I can get the newer ones. It has about 1/16" of relief at the 9th and 10th fret.

Am I doing something wrong? I know that you're supposed to be able to get the old truss rod necks arrow-straight, but I really don't want to destroy the thing trying to make it perfect.

Any tips?

The good news is that I didn't snap the neck(She's a stunning '76 Fireglo) and she's a sweet player with low action even if the neck isn't arrow-straight.

[rickfan60]

There is nomally a small amount of relief in any guitar or bass neck. Without it, there would be a lot of buzzing and other fret noise. Excessive force on the trussing system is never ok. You must identify the underlying mechanical problem before you cause serious damage to the neck. Bear in mind that some necks simply cannot be adjusted to be perfectly straight. It could be that....

1) The frets are not level.
2) The fingerboard is not level or cleanly radiused.
3) The neck is warped.
4) There is some problem with the truss rod(s) that prevents proper adjustment.

Fret problems are easy to fix. A good fret man can set you up pretty quickly. Truss rod issues on Ricks are also easily handled. The older style rods sometimes bind up in the channel and need a little care to get them back in working order. Remove them and clean them up with a little naptha and steel wool to get off any rust and debris that might be clinging to them. Make sure the threads are clean and straight. You can straighten bent rods by gentily clamping them in a vise and bending them straight. Sometimes the aluminum collar block becomes gouged by the nuts. This makes the nuts bind up too much and makes adjustments difficult. If the gouges are shallow, they can be cleaned up with a file. I have seen lock washers used between the nuts and block but I don't know if this is a stable fix. Wax the rods with carnuba wax to make them even smoother then reinstall them.

Fingerboard and neck issues are harder much to address and are futher complicated by the fact that Ricks have varnished fingerboards. Not every fingerboard left the factory perfectly level and with a perfect radius. It is rare but it does happen that the fingerboard has high or low spots from incomplete leveling. Because it is far more likely to be the problem, have the frets checked first. Fixing the fingerboard means a partial refin. Sometimes the neck will warp or twist a bit and cause playability issues. Leveling the fingerboard can fix this in some cases. Contact me off forum if you want me to take a look at it for you. We live near each other so it will be easy to arrange a visit if you would like.

[rickaddict]

Thanks for your thoughtful and informative reply, and your offer as well Ted. The guitar in question is probably fine with its 1/16" of relief, then. But I have another one or two that I'd like "Dr. Ted" to take a look at if we can find the time.

I'll shoot you an email.

[rictified]

I have an easy way to do it alone. Take off the TRC, get your 1/4" nutdriver in hand, leave strings at tension, put bottom of bass on floor with foot in front to hold it from slipping (rug works much better) put knee behind body of bass as pivot, put hand on nut and pull back with that hand and put the nutdriver on the nuts and adjust both, let go, sight down neck, if necessary do it again until it is at the place you want it to be. I myself like a little bit of relief, maybe a little less than 1/16".

[aceonbass]

It would help to know what kind of strings you're using. If you're using steal round wound strings such as RotoSounds, you're putting about 50 pounds more force on the neck that the strings it was designed for. I use RIC nickel round wounds and have the neck almost perfectly flat.

[ilan]

Finally got to chopping the rods on my white '73. Cut off about an inch from both. This really is a neat trick, and it worked. Before that the neck was seriously bowed, and totally unplayable.

Well, the neck is straight now with low-tension TI flats (fairly low action); arrow straight on the G string side and a very slight bow on the E string side. But the threaded ends of the rods look like they are just starting to bend down again, so I'm not going to try to adjust the neck for DR Lo Riders like I planned.

Big thanks to John Hall, Ted, Sergio, and everyone else who helped with good advice. I'll post pics when I'm done restoring the bass.

[rictified]

They will most likely bend down again, on one of my mine the machinest made new ends for the rods and welded them on made of hardened steel, they don't bend at all and I had Fender telphone lines on this bass for an extended period of time a few years ago, it does have a very strong neck and the rods didn't go bad on this bass, I had had them in another bass when they stripped.

[rickfan60]

Nice work, Ilan!

[heinpete]

To avoid the bending of the truss rod ends in the headstock cavity I support them beneath the screws right after the small block with a small metal plate (3cm x 1cm), max. 2mm thin, that covers about 2/3 of the screws lenght. The washers I flatten at one side so they look like a 3/4 moon, then they can also lay on my metal plate support. This construction definitely keeps the rod ends from bending, but also has the danger of separation of some fingerboard from the neck as all power goes upwards!!! If you use this construction you have to be very careful in tightening the screws of the rods, but if you hold your stringed and tuned 4001 neck in a little bit "buckeled" position (oposite of banana shape, or banana turned 180 degrees) when you fix the screws it works wonders! If you come across (in the EU) such construction then you know it could be one of my earlier 4001/4003s. I supported 4 necks with it: a '83 4003Burgundy, a '76 4001autumnglo, a '74 4001kjetglo and a '80 4001fireglo. All of the buyers were happy with it ever after...