4001V63 vs. 4001C64 vs. an original

RutleDirk · Post by **RutleDirk** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:43 am

Trying to decide whether my hunt for a 4001V63PMC is really worth the agony.

Has anyone been able to compare first-hand both the 4001V63 and the 4001C64 to an original '64-ish 4001S?

The "handedness" of the headstock notwithstanding, is either of the reissues any closer to the original, in terms of body shape, cosmetics and overall look/feel?

I only ask because I've only seen pictures of all three, and to me, the 4001V63 looks a lot truer to the original, especially as concerns the body, headstock and pickguard shaping. Also, I do own a 4001C64S, and it seems to be more like a modern 4003 in all respects, less the binding and a bit of horn, here and there.

rickfan63 · Post by **rickfan63** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:59 pm

I have a V63 and the horseshoe pickup in it is POWERFUL. Much more so than a 60's 4001S, from what I have heard stated before. I also have heard that the V63's shoes are stronger than the C64's shoes, which are said to be closer to the '60's horseshoes. That's hearsay on my part though.

eddied · Post by **eddied** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:43 pm

Randy, you are absolutely right! I have both re-issues (the first year for each) and in deed the V63 horseshoe is MUCH hotter than the C64. But John Hall explained many times that the C64 horshoe was crafted and wrapped to meet the output of the original 64-65 4001 horshoe, so the difference is very noteable and obvious when played side by side. I was rather disappointed that my C64 output was not as HOT as the V63, but I do understand after the explaination.

headbanger · Post by **headbanger** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:28 am

Dennis, the short answer is no. I've played all three and a real 64 has a REALLY thin neck back to front. Both the v63 & C64 played just like my 4003 with the c64 having a little thinner neck than the 4003 and v63. The rounded off areas on upper bouts of the two 64's I have are completely round where as on the c and v only the corners are done leaving the flat side edge. They were thicker & felt much bulkier.
The best pickup I ever had was the v63. The original is weak in comparison. But the best overall Rick sound(for me) comes from a toaster and a 70's highgain.

jone_60 · Post by **jone_60** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:48 am

I'm surprised anyone would say the 4001C64S is similar to a 4003 without binding and shaved horns... I didn't think that at all. But I DID have my v63 at the same time as my C64S and they were very different.

And John Hall DID explain the C64 & C64S Horseshoe thing. I don't recall exact words, but the main difference, was that a capacitor was installed to cut the output and boost the treble. I guess it is supposed to make the pickup sound brighter, at the loss of some punch that the V63's had. It is supposed to mimic the originals more closely (I don;t recall if the originals had this capacitor too)... anyway, He explained how you could "Jump" the capacitor which would give you more output. So in the end, the pickups are similar... its just how they are wired that is the main difference! Someone on here even DID the mod and came back and said it was a Huge difference. I don't recall how to do it though. Maybe John can repeat it.

I put a High Gain in and it sounds alot different than the horseshoe, however, not nearly as "Punchy" as I would have liked... But I realized after Mr Hall's explanation, that I did NOT remove that capacitor, so in effect, I have the same issue, of making it sound brighter, giving the false impression that its louder, when in fact it couldn't be!

As for the Neck... I've only held and played a 60's 4001 one time and for only a few minutes. I don't recall the neck being that different than the C64 version... Although at the time I owned my V63 an do remember how different it was to that! The C64 neck reminds me a little of the neck on my old '75 4001 - Nice and thin and easy to play!

RutleDirk · Post by **RutleDirk** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:33 am

I take that back--the C64S neck is much different from that of the 4003. I was refering to the shape of the body, mainly.

headbanger · Post by **headbanger** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:19 am

Bill, neither do I really. It's just the C(not 64s) & V I played felt more like or closer to(but not the same as) my 4003 than both my 64 4001s's which are as good as identical. The C did have a shallower profile neck than the V but still not quite the shape & nowhere near as shallow as the 64's. To give you an idea, both 64's have less than 1/8" of wood between the back of the headstock and the bottom of the truss rod cavity.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:12 am

Bill are you saying the new C64's have the cap again? The cap was part of 4001's right from the beginning I guess until they were discontinued in 1984.

chucksimms · Post by **chucksimms** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:26 pm

Yep, the C64 has the cap. I posted some time ago about this asking why the horseshoe sounded so gutless compared to the toaster. Mr. Hall himself suggested bypassing the cap, which worked well. It still doesn't sound quite as full as my 4001CS, but it's so pretty I now use it as my main bass anyways!