325V59 Controls

newman · Post by **newman** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:35 am

I am a (gasp) Fender guy who is suddenly intrigued by Ric products, the 325 in particular. I am absolutely clueless as to the inner workings of the Ric. While researching, I came across the V59 schematic on the RIC website. I am baffled over the circuitry!

It appears to me that all three pickups would operate in the center position, the neck and middle would both be on in the customary neck position, and the bridge position seems to yeild the conventional bridge only. Is this right? Are the controls all active in the center position, and why? Is it an equalizer effect?

Can anyone also explain the "reverse controls" I have read about? Is it volume and tone, or both? Why are they this way?

Any info/insight that anyone is willing to provide is appreciated. Please remember, although I am a compulsive tinkerer, I am completely uninitiated in the ways of the Ric! Please be gentle with me...

roadrunners · Post by **roadrunners** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:40 am

I beleive......That its

Bridge position=Bridge
Middle position=Bridge/Middle
Neck Position=Neck

I could be wrong though....i dont own any 3 pickup ricks....

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:55 am

Reverse controls: Any pot can be wired to operate either clockwise or counterclockwise. Most are wired to reduce resistance when turned clockwise. This results in higher volume or less rolloff. Earlier Ricks had the pots wired backwards, so the resistance decreases as you turn them counterclockwise.

Why? Just quirks of the early days. Just like early cars didn't have standardized steering wheel positions.

admin · Post by **admin** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:08 am

Welcome to The Rickenbacker forum Doug. Two very good questions. Both of these configurations harken back to the early days and have become a part of Rickenbacker tradition. Some people modify the wiring to suit them and others keep it stock. Not all Rickenbacker models behave this way.

newman · Post by **newman** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:15 am

Alex - That is exactly what I would have thought (like an LP Custom), but the 325V59 schematic shows differently! Can anyone confirm or deny it?

Paul - Thanks for the explanation, but are the volume controls also wired "backwards", or just tone?

Thanks guys - keep 'em coming. Any info that might be useful to the unenlightened is welcome and appreciated....

newman · Post by **newman** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:16 am

We overlapped posts, Peter! Thanks for the info. I feel a case of Ric GAS coming on...

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:13 am

Using Alex's terminology, it's really like this:

Bridge position=Bridge
Middle position=Bridge/Middle/Neck
Neck Position=Middle/Neck

That's as shown on the schematic for the 32V59, as you referred to (but a discontinued model).

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:19 am

That's the way my 340 works.

dlesho · Post by **dlesho** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:55 pm

Cool, I read the schematic correctly. Are your controls reversed?

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:54 pm

This is why Lennon disconnected his middle pick up.
When all 3 are on it gives an out of phase configuration
that some people just can't appreciate. As to who did the original design on the 325 I don't know, but it may be they were trying to get a different sound that the Fender Strat could not acheive. Both were 3 pick up model's except the 325 had a unique wiring set up.
If the 2nd tone control was wired into the middle pick up as a seperate volume control, then it could be activated as a seperate volume/blend control with a reverse or positive phase option that would give the player more options for tone.

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:38 am

Dale, I don't think Lennon disconnected the middle p/up on his guitar at all. I think that is a myth.

People have pondered that for years, for most people have tried proving their theories using 325s that were later than 1958. Any 325 after 1958 was different.

With a real 1958 325, ALL of the old Lennon sounds you hear on the early Beatles records
can be achieved, with nothing disconnected.

Here are the available selections that can be dialed in /out:

1) Bridge pickup alone
2) Middle pickup alone
3) Neck pickup alone
4) Bridge and Neck pickup
5) Bridge and Middle pickup (out of phase kind of effect)

"It was by a combination of the 3 way selector and volume controls that these 5 options were possible. These selections have apparently not been possible on any 3 pickup Ric made since 1958."-----Glen Lambert

I have a 2-knob "58" circuit in my own 325C58, which is a 1:1 replica of the original unaltered circuit, and most of these sounds are available, even with 2 pots.

roadrunners · Post by **roadrunners** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:10 am

wow, Thanks Mr. Hall for clearing that up! I going to go to pick of the ricks to have a third pickup installed, and its nice to know how these things work! Ive never owned a 3 pickup Rick. Im thinking.....toasters.....

dlesho · Post by **dlesho** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:15 am

Hi Leftybass - Thanks much for the info. But I can't see how one would achieve #2 Middle Pickup Alone. It's wired directly to the switch (at the same contacts as the neck pickup). The volume pot for the neck pickup should effect it. If you rolled off the neck volume, the middle would go with it. What am I missing?

leftybass · Post by **leftybass** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:08 am

Hi Doug, I'll try to explain, (lol)...

When the 325 was first produced early in 1958, they only had one tone pot and one volume pot for three p/ups. Not long after this, approx. July-Aug. 1958 a new circuit was devised for the 325 with two volume pots and two tone pots. The 325s that were still in factory inventory were converted from the two-knob circuit to the 4-knob variation (ala Lennon's guitar.) His guitar is, so far, the only one observed with the later circuit. From what myself and others can gather, the extra two pots were merely grafted onto what was in the guitar already with the necessary changes to the connections, even the existing pickguards were modified. The selector switches on the 58 325 were different too..

The point to all of this is that 325s made after 1958(meaning the FG 1960 325 and all others from then on) had a different circuit, much like what you'd find in a Rickenbacker 340 of the day....and you can't really use these guitars as a reference to research 'how did Lennon get that sound on his 325??'.....without the proper setup in your lap.

I recommend you give this site a look, you should find it quite interesting:

http://www.geocities.com/vintage325/58wiring.html

Glen is a great guy and has done a bit of research about this very thing...Have fun with it!!

dlesho · Post by **dlesho** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:43 am

Hmmmm... interesting indeed!

So the 325v59 schematic (being based presumably on 1959) has the neck and middle in parallel, whereas the early 58s did not. The 5 options you listed above then only apply to the earlier circuit. I thought you were saying the v59 circuit would provide the 5 options, thanks for clearing that up.

As a fan of guitar circuitry, this is very interesting. It is simple (unlike say, the Jazzmaster or Jaguar), yet somewhat complex in regard to switching options available with but a few controls.

For anyone who may be interested, here's an article I wrote on the innards of the Fender Jaguar. I hoep this is not heresy on this Ric page!

www.dlesho.com/page1