Must be completely addicted and uncurable

rickengrowl · Post by **rickengrowl** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:59 am

Hi folks,
I guess I need a doctor in emergency.
Known here as a guy who used to own several Rick basses and also finally sold them, I'm really wondering if I can ever get cured, or most generally what I should do.
Having been engaged by a cover band where I needed a more "mainstream" or "versatile" bass, I had to sell my 4003 JG in Spring '04. Then owned a Jazz Bass and a Warwick Corvette. Did not find complete satisfaction with them. Now switched to Music Man 5, still no complete satisfaction.
I must acknowledge everytime I sold a Rick, some addiction symptoms appeared then. And yes, you got it, they are back now.
I also have to take a big decision after Summer. Earning a living money with music is fair, but the music I play there does not please me at all. And the current bass doesn't either.
What would you do ? Do I have to have incomes insured and stick with any active 5er, whatever it is ? Or do I have to come back to what I love the most (Rick and rock) and try to make a living out of it ?
I know the decision is mine. But any comment or experience shall be appreciated.
Many thanks,
JL

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:19 am

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long
plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die
like dogs. There's also a negative side."

I gave up on music as a business years ago ... true talent seldom gets rewarded ... the real money in music is made by those who don't play or sing or write ... I look at it as a hobby ... I get to go out make a lot of noise ... get a few free beers ... get applauded ... and make a few hundred bucks ...

what other business do you spend years crafting your skills ... spend months getting a band tight ... spend hours setting up ... spend hours tearing down ... and spend thousands of dollars on PA, lights, drums, guitars, basses, amps, effects, cases, cords, mixers, etc ... just for a band to make a few hundred bucks for a live preformance ...

So I say do what makes you happy ... I can't afford to work as a full time musician ... I can't afford the pay cut ...

the nice thing about making it a "Hobby" is that when it is not fun you change it to keep it fun ... well the reason "work" is called "work" is that they have to pay you to be there ... when music gets to that point then it really sucks ... there are a lot better ways to earn a living ...

so dump the basses you don't like and dump the music you don't like and do what you think is fun ...

I was playing out last night and got a compliment on the Rickenbacker tone ...

There is no substitute for Rickenbacker ...

phlemmy · Post by **phlemmy** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:24 am

Quoted from Jeff:
"the nice thing about making it a "Hobby" is that when it is not fun you change it to keep it fun ... well the reason "work" is called "work" is that they have to pay you to be there ... when music gets to that point then it really sucks ... there are a lot better ways to earn a living ...

so dump the basses you don't like and dump the music you don't like and do what you think is fun ... "

I couldn't agree more.

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:25 am

My opinion is to go with what makes you happy. Pick up another Ric and get rockin'. I'm not quitting my day job to make a living at music so take my opinion for what you will (and I don't particularly love my day job either......but it pays pretty good and supports my hobbies).
I can't even imagine playing without a Ric so I can understand the void you felt when you got rid of yours. I have found mine to be quite versatile. Just an amp tweak here and there and some altering of my playing style have gotten me any tone I have needed (or close enough).
Check out the 4004 series.....they may be the perfect compromise for your needs if you still feel the 4003 won't cut it. Just a thought.
Basically I am no help at all.......good luck though and welcome back !

rickengrowl · Post by **rickengrowl** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:27 am

Jeff,
You caught exactly what bothers me : while being paid as a musician (but basically not more than a non-qualified workman in a factory), I'm not happy.
Not happy with that b*llsh*t mainstream music (rap, r'n'b, old disco standards, etc.). Not happy with my bass.
When I was engaged, last year, I was happy. Happy not to have to make web design and development to make a living. Happy to see myself live from my musical skills.
I always hold my promises, so I'll do the Summer gigs with the band. Then I'll take a decision.
Thanks for your input.
Jean

rickengrowl · Post by **rickengrowl** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:31 am

Thanks to all.
Brian, my "problem" is not the choice between a 4001 or 4003 or 4004 etc.
The problem is that mainstream modern music that requires active 5ers most of the time. The Rick could not fit that. And I could not afford a bass for mainstream music without selling the Rick.
Anyway thanks for your inputs everyone.
JL

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:50 am

these basses will do modern music ...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:09 pm

I use 4003's for all types of stuff, just put Pyramid flats on them, you'll amaze your friends, their stereotype of Rickenbacker basses will be shattered forever. I know you've used SVT's in the past but those don't hurt either.

mortivan · Post by **mortivan** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:15 pm

Nice to see you again Jean!

nattiep · Post by **nattiep** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:45 pm

Yeah get Rath to make it a 5 string. Nothing wrong with a Ric 5 string.

edski · Post by **edski** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:16 pm

Jean, nice to make your acquaintance...

I recently talked to the guy who gave me a few bass lessons in early 10th grade (he was a senior). Ray went on to be a pro musician for most of the 80's, said he loved the travel and the playing he despised the business. Now he's burnt out on music.

Jeff's comments are very insightful. My own take is that I thought seriously about going to college for music, and choose science instead. As a result I've had a pretty good run in the environmental engineering business and now computer programming. All the while music has remained a serious hobby.

We all know the troubles in trying to get a good band together, tight, consistent, up on old stuff and learning new stuff, and keeping 3 to however many people on the same page. It's a freaking PITA. Although I sometimes wish I did music for a living, I'm not sure that it would be all that much better than what I do now.

Jean, get a Rick, put flats, and tell all of the Fender-lovers to take a listen. There will be bottom end for days, and their stereotypes that Ricks are "one sound" basses should go out the window.

Or better yet, get a 4004, and it'll have better lows with rounds on it than a P bass, and get that twang when you need it.

I suppose if you need to play and they say "get something else" you do what you need to to keep the gig. But if you're getting near the end of the rope with the ****, follow your heart!

dean712 · Post by **dean712** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:30 pm

Jean -

Play whatever bass helps you express yourself and feel happy. I've been in a few band situations, and the brand/model/#strings of my bass has always been less important than issues such as:
- feel/groove/time/ability
- artistic compatibility (complex but important)
- personality/outlook-on-life/work ethic
If a gig rides on gear choices before the personal quality issues, it's probably not worth it. If you're a dedicated player who fits the needs of the group, your instrument brand/model ought to be low on the decision matrix, in a perfect world. If it's between you and another
Ace for a high-profile gig, and your bass's nameplate makes the call, you are beyond my level of expertise....

Jeff's insights into the music business are unfortunately very accurate. At least here in America, it's a bunch of sharks.

You might have one advantage living in France, though. Here in America, health care is a huge issue. If a musician quits a day job here to pursue music and loses health insurance, it's a big risk. In our system, if you don't have health insurance and you or one of your dependents gets really sick, either (a) you don't get treated and die early, or (b) your family goes bankrupt paying inflated health charges, or (c) both. That's one of the flaws of our health system here in America - our system reports to Wall Street, not sick kids; I'm guessing that's not as big an issue in France, but I don't know. Personally, I have a wife, daughter, and step-daughter, so even if the money from bass playing was in the ballpark of the dayjob, the healthcare issue here kinda has me hostage, at this point of my life.

There are other issues with music as a profession - unscrupulous managers, record companies, general sharks in the water, etc. From what I've seen, imagine the worst of the human condition, and you're in the ballpark. Maybe it's not that bad. But Jeff's quote holds a lot of accuracy.

On the other hand, music is such an expression of art, joy, and emotion... if that is what you are drawn to do, then you must, one way or another. You only live once, and life is short.

I don't know if this was much help, but good luck.

rickengrowl · Post by **rickengrowl** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:07 pm

Thanks to all. Your inputs are great.

Well, when you play in a cover band that is paid for people to dance (what we call here "ball orchestra"), you have to play and sound as close as possible to the original track, because what will make people dance, among other things, is the band's accuracy to the original song. At least, that's how it works here, in Southern France. And trying to have the most professional behaviour as possible, I decided to "stick" on that matter and get a bass sounding like what is heard on more of these original tracks.

Now, and thanks again because the point has been input here by many among you, the real problem is not that of the bass, but that of what I have to do : keep on playing music I don't like and stick with a bass I don't like either, or make another business and come back to pleasure of music with a bass I love ?

Once again, the decision is mine. I am more and more tending towards the second solution. Web design and development pays more than music, and I'll probably be happier recording my own tracks (even if it's just for pleasure) than playing soap music for drunk youth.

Dean, you're right on the social security point. Being a musician, you have health insurance for one year if you have 43 gigs in an 8 month laps of time. And in the same conditions you get unemployment allowance for one year too. This seems pretty fair, but you must know this generally means a EUR 1,000 / 1,200 monthly income, nothing more. And rehearsals, travel expenses, etc., are not paid. And I also have a wife and a daughter. But don't get me wrong, I won't bash French social protection, since it seems to be far better here than in most other countries.

The fact is, if I go back to web design and development, I may earn EUR 4,000 / 5,000 per month. There is no joy and emotion in that kind of job, but I don't find much in the music I currently play either. So...

Thanks again to all,
Cheers
JL

edski · Post by **edski** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:51 am

Jean...while I agree that there are some cold facets to computer programming, I've always looked at creating a program to be similar to creating a piece of music...maybe I'm weird.

The theory my band ascribes to relating to covers is that the closer they are to being current tunes, the closer your arrangement needs to be. So for some older tunes we play, we take definite liberties with our arrangements. For newer tunes we try to do an arrangement that doesn't stray too much from the recording...

But having just a bass and a guitar, and the 'nads to attempt tunes with far more varied and numerous instrumentation, there's always a limit. Basically in those cases we strive to recreate the hook, and just make a lot of noise!

And of course, we are also the "weekend warrior" type...

Good luck. Keep us posted!

thinneckrick · Post by **thinneckrick** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:57 am

I have owned jazz basses for 25 years . I always told myself that i would have one in my possesion at all times . I've always loved ricks and had many of the them at times thru the years .It actually was'nt until last year that i went with ricks exclusivly.I bought a 90 jetglo 4001 on e-bay and it was so fantastic i could'nt put it down . I can achieve just about any tone out of it including my beloved jazz bass.I played it for months non stop until i relized i did'nt need my clay dot 62 jazz bass any more . So i sold it and bought more ricks lol.And i bought another one that sounds even more like the jazz bass i had lol.Gotta love it . There is no other bass for me than a rick . You can do and play anything on one . And thru an SVT you really cant lose . Once you play the right one you wont even think about any other brand of bass in my humble opinion.