Tribute to George in Latest GUITAR PLAYER Magazine

[admin]

Larry: My research leads me to believe that the following photo of the Beatles was taken at the Tower Ballroom, New Brighton, Wallasey on Friday September 21, 1962.

[larrywassgren]

Peter, this is the photo I mentioned above. I believe it to be from very early in '63. Mark Lewisohn doesn't mention a Tower Ballroom performance in January of 1963, but all performances are not documented and I believe this is one date that is missing from the puzzle.
Again, in this photo John has only three Hofner knobs on his '58. It may seem like a small detail, but the Majestic Ballroom show on December 15 shows John with four Hofner knobs on his '58. The finish looks new, just as the Star Club photos show a freshly painted guitar in December of '62. I believe John got the '58 refinished in December of '62 and used it first for the Majestic Ballroom show, realized the wiring wasn't correct and had it worked on(possibly by Adrian Barber?) at The Star Club in late December. The one Hofner knob was lost at this time and we don't see four knobs on the guitar again until after Burns worked on the guitar and replaced the three Hofner knobs with Burns knobs. It's the only way the sequence makes sense to me. Why go from three Hofner knobs, to four Hofner knobs, and then back to three Hofner knobs. The odds of doing that seem unlikely to me. Just wondering what you are basing the September 21 date on Peter? I know that Mike McCartney claims it was taken a week after Pete Best was sacked, but he has been wrong with dates before. Although we all owe him a big thanks for some great photos!

[admin]

Larry: When it comes to Beatle Forensics, no detail should be overlooked. I the main, concur with your "Knobs Hypothesis" with the caveat that the circumstances leading to the breaking of one knob on stage can certain be repeated. Whether the breaking and replacement is likely to have happened in so short a timeframe I cannot say and this is, I suppose, an empirical question.

My reason for dating the Mike McCartney photo above at September 21, 1962 is, as you have already noted, based in part on McCartney's comments. People's episodic memory is often associated with particular landmarks of their life experience. Mike is likely close to the truth in recall that the photo was taken shortly after Ringo joined The Beatles. As to the exact timeframe of one week, I am prepared to cut him some slack. In any event it is at the Tower Ballroom and September 21, 1962 is the first date at that venue following Ringo's debut. Also, revisiting your small details approach, the haircuts and suitcoats are more consistent with the 1962 era as opposed to the 1963 dress and hair length. I would be prepared, on further reflection, to consider that the photo of John with his J160E may have been early 1963 based on the dress code and hair styles in that photo.

The last Tower Ballroom performance in 1962 for The Beatles was December 7, 1962 and so this is the latest possible date in which we might have been able to see the 1958 Model 325 in black finish. Borrowing from Sam Leach once again, the following photo shows John with the 325 in black at the Tower Ballroom. I would argue that this photo was probably not earlier that December 7, 1962, but probably not later. Some more observations to consider.

[larrywassgren]

Yes, memories are not always correct. Mike McCartney's book was published in 1992, thirty years after his photos were taken. Plenty of time to forget dates. Photos do not lie and the more photos we see from the era the more accurate we become with events. I haven't seen any photos that prove his '58 was refinished in September or October, everything I've seen puts it at December(possibly late November). Further evidence that leads to this date is the great photo in the book, Beatles From Cavern to Star Club, page 142. This is the same photo as in How They Became The Beatles, page 113, only it is blown up much bigger in the Swedish book. In it, you can clearly see that one pot is inside the guitar and the pickgaurd is attached with only two screws. They are clearly still working on the wiring at this time or they would have permanently screwed down the pickguard again. The question is, would John have waited from September or October until late December to work on his '58 325 electronics?
I would say definitely no. From all accounts I've read he was highly 'irritated' with the electronics after the refinish. He wouldn't have waited two or three months to have the guitar worked on in Hamburg. I believe he played it on
12/15/62 at the Majestic Ballroom show for the first time(in black), three days later they left for Hamburg and this photo shows they were working on the electronics then. As for the haircuts and suits, I have another rare book called The Beatles in Oldham and Middleton which has photos of The Beatles playing at the Astoria on February 12, 1963 and they are in blacks suits with ties and their hair looks the same as the Tower Ballroom photo. Seems Brian Epstein was also talking them into going to the barber on a regular basis back then. That didn't last long!

[voxtalks]

You guys need to look at the Chadwick photos taken in the Cavern, page 103 "How They Became the Beatles". Two new non-recovered black AC30s and Lennon has four Hofner Knobs on his guitar, this photo was taken early '63. December 15th the Beatles still had fawn (one AC30 twin and one AC15 twin) amps as in the (Tower Ballroom, New Brighton, Wallasey on Friday September 21, 1962) photo you guys are discussing where Lennon only had three Hofner knobs on his 325, yet they have fawn amps.

It does go from three, to four, back to three and then to down two Hofner knobs by April '63.

[larrywassgren]

Good point Nick! That photo would be early '63 and you're correct that it does have four Hofner knobs on it again. Then the sequence would go four(Majestic Ballroom), three(Star Club and working on the electronics), four(Cavern photo you just pointed out), three(Oldham photos) and down to two knobs(I have that photo somewhere!). I'm still convinced the '58 325 was sprayed black in late November or early December of 1962, for the reasons I mentioned above. I am also convinced from the photos in the Oldham and Middleton book that the VOX amps were recovered.
They would have time to recover them when The Beatles were playing through the cream Fender house amps at The Star Club(December 18-31, 1962).

[admin]

Larry: Notwithstanding all your interesting points, for me the crux of the issue is what is the date of the Tower Ballroom photo showing Harrison, McCartney and Lennon on harmonica shown above.

In consideration of Mike McCartney's comments and Nick Thiel's observations I am still inclined to date the above Tower Ballroom photo as September 21, 1962. Unless Lennon played the guitar wet, I would still contend that the instrument was refinished in the few days before this gig.

While it may be a long shot, Lennon was indeed a tinkerer (as confirmed by Pete Best) and I am still of the belief that he was always making adjustments to the guitar knobs. Don't you consider that he was bound to break a few or perhaps crack a pickguard in the tightening process?

[voxtalks]

Lennon still had the AC15 twin in December of '62, I have the pics. Also there is no doubt that the black amp that he had in early '63 was an AC30 twin, I have those pics too. They can't be recovered unless Lennon's AC15 had some sort of metamorphosis into an AC30 during the recover. I agree there was time in December to do it, but the thing being missed here is that there was no deal with JMI in '62, which is why the Beatles played the Fender house amps at the end of that year in Germany. We know that the Beatles were given two AC30 twins as part of their deal with JMI, do the math and figure it out which amps those were.

[larrywassgren]

I'm hearing all your points here, but as I said earlier, something here does not fit. Possibly the photo of the Tower Ballroom could be taken after the Majestic photo and before they left for Hamburg? Only a few days, but like I've stated earlier, not all performances are accounted for. Mark Lewisohn is the guru, but he doesn't know them all. Everybody, just look at that photo on page 113 of How They Became The Beatles(please!) and tell me that '58 doesn't look freshly painted. If it had been painted on September 21 it wouldn't look that clean in late December(3 months later). Not the way Lennon battered it around. And he wouldn't have waited three months to have the wiring corrected. The photos on page 82 and 83 in Mike McCartney's book are deceiving as the photo on page 82 is clearly the Cavern and page 83 is the Tower. He lumps these two photos together and talks like they are the same show. Possibly the Cavern shot is the first time Ringo played the Cavern with The Beatles, but the Tower shot I believe is much later in '62. I don't think Lennon liked tinkering with his guitars or amps, he just liked playing them. If he was a 'tinkerer' I think he would have mounted his Bigsby himself. Even Rod Davis states that he had to change Lennon's strings on his Champion. But he was forced to have someone tinker with his '58 after it was messed up during the 'sprayed to black' change. Yes, he did play the '58 hard and lost a few knobs and that's why we have these photos with knobs missing. If you've ever tried putting a Rogan knob or Hofner knob back on a guitar you'll find it's not that easy a job. I've got a screwdriver specially narrowed(sanded down) to accomodate those small set screws. If he lost a knob at a gig, it would more than likely go in his pocket and then even if he thought of putting it back on the guitar it wouldn't be that easy a task. So, during this short period these knobs become very important for dating. I don't believe the original pickguard was ever replaced on John's '58. Ron DeMarino has the original guard. As for the tan VOX amps, I have a good friend from Liverpool who actually remembers seeing the amps at Hessy's. He also remembers clearly that they were recovered. He was there so I believe him, and he's not one of the BSer's. Maybe after they were recovered black and VOX started making black AC-30's The Beatles decided to get factory original black ones? George was reportedly miffed that VOX started producing the black ones after they had theirs recovered. Since they had a deal with VOX at this time they may have done a quick change from recovered to factory black amps, this would have upgraded the power on Lennon's which was needed at this time too?

[admin]

In an attempt to narrow down the period during which Lennon's 1958 325 may have been refinished, I offer the following photograph from Ray Coleman's Volume 1 - John Winston Lennon in which Paul McCartney, John Lennon and Mike McCartney are at the Cavern in October 1962. Look to the left of the piano. If this is dated accurately, the 325 would have to have been refinished sometime in October 1962 or later.

[larrywassgren]

That is a great photo for sure. But once again, I wouldn't put too much faith into Ray Coleman's date on that photo. There is so much wrong information in print about these old photos and when and where they were taken. I don't think the authors put as much thought into it as we do. To the far left in this photo, that appears to be George's Gibson GA-40 amp so that would put this photo as earlier than October of '62, probably sometime during the summer of '62. What I think is pretty funny is the caption under the Coleman photo says 'McCartney's chair had been 'borrowed' from the Star-Club, Hamburg.' This same photo can be found on page 70 in Mike McCartney's book Remember so it does belong to Mike and he must have given Ray Coleman permission to use it. The famous Star Club chair can be partially seen on page 45 in Remember. The Mike McCartney caption for that photo reads 'In the foreground of the shot on page 45 is a chair with the words Star Club; they must have nicked it from Hamburg.' But if you look closely at the picture on page 45 you see only part of the back of the chair. The Star Club stencil(or sticker) is actually on Paul's Cavern bass case which is laying on the chair. So Mike McCartney must have told Ray Colemen about the 'borrowed' chair as he points it out in his book too. So you get all this over a chair! Why would The Beatles steal a chair from the Star Club and lug it all the way back to Liverpool? John is also sitting on the exact same chair, the chairs belonged to the Cavern Club. But, you can see how something this silly, when put into print, becomes gospel. The famous Star Club chair which actually belonged to the Cavern! If they can't get the chair photo correct, how can they get the date correct for these photos? Anyway, did anyone take out their magnifying glass and check out the photo on page 113 in the How They Became The Beatles book? Wouldn't you agree that the '58 looks freshly painted in that photo?

[admin]

Larry: I will give the photo to which you refer a good look under magnification. My electron-microscopic is down so I will settle for other equipment. Your comment about photos not lying is an interesting one. While they may not deliberately mislead, photos of black intstruments are subject to a number of lighting conditions that sometimes fool the eye.

[larrywassgren]

Good point Peter. I've taken hundreds of guitar photos over the last 20+ years and my experience has been that black guitars usually look worse than better in photos. Especially color photos which can actually seem to change the color of the guitar. There was a post somewhere several years ago where a guy was claiming Lennon actually had a blue, sparkle finish '58 325. Of course it was the black '58 shot where the finish looked almost blue and the fingerprints all over the guitar gave it the sparkle effect! Anyway, I think the photo on page 113 in How They Became The Beatles gives an accurate look at the '58 in December of '62. And to me, the guitar looks freshly painted at this time.

[admin]

Larry: Further to our discussion above, I have posted the following photo of John Lennon performing at the London Palladium on January 12, 1964. Its purpose is to show, in the right light, an instrument that has bound to have a noticeable degree of wear and tear, looking quite well a year or so into the new finish.

[larrywassgren]

Yes, that guitar would look great if even half the black paint was missing. I still feel the photo on page 113 represents the condition of the guitar well and it does not look like it's been played every day(and sometimes twice a day) for two months. As I mentioned before, they are definitely working on the electronics at this point because the pickguard is temporarily replaced with only two screws. If it were just a matter of a missing knob I wouldn't feel so strongly about it, but the whole pot is inside the guitar. They must be trying out different wiring until they get it right. Adrian Barber, where are you? I can't imagine Lennon waiting two months to fix the wiring. And, no one has found any proof(photographs) to show that the guitar was sprayed as early as October of '62. I've got pretty much every book on The Beatles that has been printed and I've been going over this for a long time and there just aren't any photos showing the guitar would have been sprayed before late November or early December. The Mike McCartney photo at the Tower Ballroom doesn't do it for me. I don't believe he has the date correct on that photo.