Ricks vs fender
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
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org_fifth_beatle
Ricks vs fender
Ever wonder why people like to have thier strats all banged up looking like they went throu the mill and Ricks are well taken care of? because RICKEBACKER's are the ROLLS ROYCE of guitars!
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highway_star
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Fenders get banged up because when you finally find a good one, you enjoy playing the hell out of it and it becomes a favorite. Funny how the same factory can turn out a hunk of coal and a diamond in the same day. If you ever see a Fender that isn't banged up, you need be be very cautious as to why that is so. I speak from experience.
Getting a good wood neck on a new bass or guitar is a crapshoot. The straightest and most seasoned wood blanks can warp over time as opposing forces that kept the blank straight are stripped away unequally and the new neck slowly assumes its desired final shape. It doesn't matter how long the blank was cured as long as strong opposing grain forces exist within the wood. A big company like Fender will put out a lot of gems and a lot of garbage. Some neck warps will only happen under pressure and not in the drying racks, due to uneven density/strength from heel to headstock. Even the most experienced luthiers can't totally cull out such necks beforehand (and they generally don't work at Fender). Fender necks are generally too cheap to pull the frets and plane the neck flat again. Fender will slap on a new neck under warranty, and the dice are rolled again. Blame the maple tree, or varying weather conditions that caused unequal growth through the years.
My favorite bass is one that I bought used after it had a couple of years to sort itself out. The huge amount of used Fenders for sale means that a player has a good chance of finding a Fender with an excellent neck. It's a numbers game more than a brand game. Fenders are there in huge numbers, and came from various factories throughtout their production history, with different quality standards. Fender aficionados know their axes and can pick out the gems from the coal bin. Don't kid yourself; I've seen Rickenbackers with seriously warped necks, and Ferrari's like to stay in mechanic shops too much for my taste and their owners are too familiar with finish maintenance to make me ever want to join their club. My idea of deep cleaning my Ford finish is the hailstorm it survived last Monday night. Not a rust spot or clearcoat peeloff anywhere after 8 years of braving the Texas elements without ever being garaged. Bring on your Ferraris. Today I go fishing, not washing and waxing. I've owned a Mercedes, but my best vehicle has been a Ford. That by no means can prove that Fords are better, just that they are a better value for me. Ford has built some real duds, just like Fender has. There are some Fordlike guitars and basses out there. Sort of how I view Fenders.
Getting a good wood neck on a new bass or guitar is a crapshoot. The straightest and most seasoned wood blanks can warp over time as opposing forces that kept the blank straight are stripped away unequally and the new neck slowly assumes its desired final shape. It doesn't matter how long the blank was cured as long as strong opposing grain forces exist within the wood. A big company like Fender will put out a lot of gems and a lot of garbage. Some neck warps will only happen under pressure and not in the drying racks, due to uneven density/strength from heel to headstock. Even the most experienced luthiers can't totally cull out such necks beforehand (and they generally don't work at Fender). Fender necks are generally too cheap to pull the frets and plane the neck flat again. Fender will slap on a new neck under warranty, and the dice are rolled again. Blame the maple tree, or varying weather conditions that caused unequal growth through the years.
My favorite bass is one that I bought used after it had a couple of years to sort itself out. The huge amount of used Fenders for sale means that a player has a good chance of finding a Fender with an excellent neck. It's a numbers game more than a brand game. Fenders are there in huge numbers, and came from various factories throughtout their production history, with different quality standards. Fender aficionados know their axes and can pick out the gems from the coal bin. Don't kid yourself; I've seen Rickenbackers with seriously warped necks, and Ferrari's like to stay in mechanic shops too much for my taste and their owners are too familiar with finish maintenance to make me ever want to join their club. My idea of deep cleaning my Ford finish is the hailstorm it survived last Monday night. Not a rust spot or clearcoat peeloff anywhere after 8 years of braving the Texas elements without ever being garaged. Bring on your Ferraris. Today I go fishing, not washing and waxing. I've owned a Mercedes, but my best vehicle has been a Ford. That by no means can prove that Fords are better, just that they are a better value for me. Ford has built some real duds, just like Fender has. There are some Fordlike guitars and basses out there. Sort of how I view Fenders.
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jingle_jangle
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Well said. Your workmanlike approach to both guitars and cars shows long experience and good analysis of the results of that experience.
You speak directly of the opposite poles of playing / collecting, or driving / collecting.
Most of us are somewhere in between those poles, doing a bit of both. I think Ricks are closer to Rolls Royces in philosophy and construction than they are to Ferraris.
Geoff, if I see a beat-up Fender, I walk the other way. If I see a beat-up Rickenbacker, I want to RESTORE it!
You speak directly of the opposite poles of playing / collecting, or driving / collecting.
Most of us are somewhere in between those poles, doing a bit of both. I think Ricks are closer to Rolls Royces in philosophy and construction than they are to Ferraris.
Geoff, if I see a beat-up Fender, I walk the other way. If I see a beat-up Rickenbacker, I want to RESTORE it!
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
paul
i don't beat on any of my guitars - fenders included. just my nature, i guess. i want them all looking good. however - a beaten fender looks in context to me. a beaten rick looks - well... abused. but i'm brand new to ricks - so i could later see a battered rick and say, "that's for me... to refinish!"
regards
geoff
i don't beat on any of my guitars - fenders included. just my nature, i guess. i want them all looking good. however - a beaten fender looks in context to me. a beaten rick looks - well... abused. but i'm brand new to ricks - so i could later see a battered rick and say, "that's for me... to refinish!"
regards
geoff
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jingle_jangle
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Geoff:
You and I have similar natures. I think that Fender's bulletproof construction leads them to go through lots of owners, or the fact that they keep on playin' for their original owners with minimal maintenance, means that they last a long time and still play and sound as expected. SRV's #1 was as messy as his persona.
A lot of us Rick owners are more fastidious than the median, I think. I also think that Ricks are kept longer by most of us than your average Fender, because they're harder to find and their rarity makes them intrinsically more valuable.
You and I have similar natures. I think that Fender's bulletproof construction leads them to go through lots of owners, or the fact that they keep on playin' for their original owners with minimal maintenance, means that they last a long time and still play and sound as expected. SRV's #1 was as messy as his persona.
A lot of us Rick owners are more fastidious than the median, I think. I also think that Ricks are kept longer by most of us than your average Fender, because they're harder to find and their rarity makes them intrinsically more valuable.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
In some senses I think you're actually asking the wrong question here. Sure there are a lot more beaten-up Strats out there than there are beaten-up Ricks - but that's because there are a lot more Strats out there than there are Ricks!
A guitar gets beaten-up for two reasons - either it's loved too much or it's not loved enough. And I think you can tell the difference (usually the neck is still attached to the one which is loved too much...
)
There's a 1995 on auction at the moment which clearly falls into the 'well-loved' category. And I hope that one day my 620/12 will look a little like this - missing a bit of finish here and there but generally singing away just like it does now. Maybe even better, who knows...
A guitar gets beaten-up for two reasons - either it's loved too much or it's not loved enough. And I think you can tell the difference (usually the neck is still attached to the one which is loved too much...
) There's a 1995 on auction at the moment which clearly falls into the 'well-loved' category. And I hope that one day my 620/12 will look a little like this - missing a bit of finish here and there but generally singing away just like it does now. Maybe even better, who knows...
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nick_st_hilaire
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Strats are utilitarian. Much like my truck, it gets an oil change regularly, but a wash and wax is twice a year. My car and my Ric..... too much doting is never enough.
I once passed (foolishly) on a 450 which had the finish worn off from the back of the neck and the frets were similarly worn, but the body and headstock were flawless. That was a guitar that was well loved.
Nick
I once passed (foolishly) on a 450 which had the finish worn off from the back of the neck and the frets were similarly worn, but the body and headstock were flawless. That was a guitar that was well loved.
Nick
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm all day, set a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.
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jingle_jangle
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I do like the "well-loved" analogy.
I'm sure it'll be only a matter of time before it turns up in a CME eBay ad...
I'm sure it'll be only a matter of time before it turns up in a CME eBay ad...
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
My experience is that buying the guitar, not the name is the best way to go. With a couple of exceptions I've always bought my guitars second-hand, and prefer to do so. A good instrument gets better with age while a bad one shows it's flaws, and I'm occasionally surprised by guitarists who will 'only buy a new one'. That there are people who wil pay extra money to buy a new 'relic-ed' guitar I find absolutely astounding!
I wont buy anything battered or misused and I've never had to. I found my '96 Strat Plus after a month of looking and bought a top of the range instrument at less than the retail price of a run of the mill Fender product. And it's still the best guitar I've ever played, fast'n'low neck, beautiful tone, beautifully balanced, a delight to play - if it sounded like a Ric it would be perfect.
I've never been disappointed with any guitar I've played before I've bought it, while buying thru Ebay or ordered from the retailer is as Phil says, a crapshoot.
I wont buy anything battered or misused and I've never had to. I found my '96 Strat Plus after a month of looking and bought a top of the range instrument at less than the retail price of a run of the mill Fender product. And it's still the best guitar I've ever played, fast'n'low neck, beautiful tone, beautifully balanced, a delight to play - if it sounded like a Ric it would be perfect.
I've never been disappointed with any guitar I've played before I've bought it, while buying thru Ebay or ordered from the retailer is as Phil says, a crapshoot.