21 or 24 frets?

aristeas · Post by **aristeas** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:54 pm

I've noticed a few people advocating 21 fret Rics over 24 fret models. Why is this? Do the different models have different scale lengths? My 330 has 24 frets and my 660 has 21 - I can't see much difference between them and both measure approx 12.25in nut to 12th fret.

BobKat · Post by **BobKat** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:58 pm

Really, it is the vintage vibe thing. Blindfold a guy and have him play below the 20th fret on a RIC and he'll never know the difference. 21-fret RICs just look cooler.

longhouse · Post by **longhouse** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:45 pm

String tension has always seemed stiffer on my 24 fret Rics. Just my imagination?

Noel

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Thu May 05, 2005 10:48 pm

The vintage necks are normally slimmer & my favourite subject.....the pick up spacing is different, giving a different sound!
The scale length is the same, which leaves more space between the end of the fingerboard & the bridge. With the same scale length, I can't see why the tension would suffer....mine doesn't.

red_rob · Post by **red_rob** » Thu May 05, 2005 11:02 pm

I'm a fan of 21. Although sadly in my case it pretty much just comes down to looks...

No where is it more evident than on the 360 in my opinion - 21 just looks sooooo much better

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Thu May 05, 2005 11:30 pm

I think you're right Rob, they do look better, but for me it's because they come with the small headstock! So much more refined & graceful IMO.

red_rob · Post by **red_rob** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:01 am

The headstock too! You're right Tony. Why did they change them? And don't get me started on the full length triangular inlays. I read that they were shortened to improve neck strength but it can't be that important if the full length inlays are still used with no problems on the vintage models. It's things like this that mean I have to save up the pennies for months and months to get my CW-12 instead of buying a modern 360-12 now!

Or maybe I can't wait...

aristeas · Post by **aristeas** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:21 am

So it's just looks? Anyone have a picture that shows the difference? What could I compare my 2003 330 against?

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:32 am

Not JUST looks Lee...don't forget the pick up spacing. I'll take a pic later & post it...

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:49 am

The type of pickup and their position is critical to the sound produced. As one of my goals has been to achieve the 1960s Rickenbacker sound, it was important to me to have at least one Rickenbacker with a 21 fret neck.

While the importance of the toaster pickup is clear, so too is their position on the body relative to the natural harmonics.

Some would argue that this only applies to strings in the open position. I won't argue this point, however, how many classic songs using Rickenbackers were played with open strings in the key of A D or E?

The 21 fret models are much more than nice lookers. They were the instrument that started it all. I have several 24 fret instruments which I love, however, the 21 fret models certainly have a place in my heart.

longhouse · Post by **longhouse** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:19 am

On a 21 fret Ric, isn't the neck pickup situated right where the 24th fret harmonic would exist? Thus making for an extra bit of chime and note bloom when played there...

Noel

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:55 am

Wow, I have a 24-fret with hi-gains and another with toasters, they have so much chime, I couldn't imagine much more. What I don't understand is how some people think that toasters work better with 21-fret necks. Then wouldn't hi-gains be better with 21-fret necks also ? Of course, "better" is relative and subjective, I am just trying to understand from people with more experience.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:08 am

Steve: This is such a subjective experience that it is hard to know how different the sound might be between these two configurations. As no two guitars are identical, regardless of the model number, a proper AB is not possible.

To my way of thinking, however, if you want to reproduce the sound of a certain era, then you need to have the same conditions in effect today as they did in yesterday. Is this possible, Not really but I consider you can get closer to the 60s sound with a 21 fret model and toasters than you can with a 24 fret and high gains for example.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:21 am

Steve, the reason that toasters sound better in 21 fret necks IMO, is because toasters have slightly less bass response than the more powerful hi-gains. The positioning of the neck p/up being further down the body on a 21 fret neck helps to add a little more bottom end when using both p/ups together & balances the tone very nicely.
I have had 21 & 24 fret gtrs with toasters & the 21 fret has a lot more 'warmth' to it, but still retains the jangle.
I had a 1997 with hi-gains, but the hi-gain/21 fret neck was a little TOO warm (muddy) for my tastes!

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:24 am

Thanks for that feedback. Not that this is a very rigorous A/B comparison, but I have a 330 with hi-gains, and a 360/12 with toasters. While both offer that distinct Rickenbacker chime we love, the tonal ranges are quite different, I would describe the toasters on a 24-fret as more crisp, with less bass, while the 330 with hi-gains seems a little smoother and creamier, fuller perhaps. It may be, however, that the toasters offer a more uniquely disctinct Rickenbacker sound. Who knows, I do believe that the toasters seem like a good match for a 12-string.