I think he is just someone who is an attention-seeker, who feels he should be more important than the media has made him, and wants to take credit for everyone from the Beatles to Hendrix to Prince to Living Colour. I've seen him interviewed many times where he said that so and so is ripping him off or is who he is because of him. Maybe he was an influence, but I doubt they are ripping off his act.
Back in the day, though, people would re-record his songs and have bigger hits with them because they were white. (Pat Boone!)
Little Richard and his ways.....
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atomic_punk
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I'm telling you they all got screwed whether or not they are millionaires and I doubt most of them are, they don't get the credit where it's due, how many radio stations do you hear that play their stuff regularly? Not many and none on FM. I had Eddie Cochran on my list and took him off because he was a little later, also had Buddy Holly and took him off for the same reason. A lot of people think rock n roll started with The Beatles and that just ain't so Joe. I'm as big a Beatle fan as everyone here probably but I realize they built on the pioneers, just expanded on it, who got their stuff from the blues and country players, they actually all got screwed in one way or another, music was not a big business really until the 60-70's. The Beatles first few albums have a lot of old rock covers on them. Ever hear the original Money? It blows away the Beatles version for example although i like the Beatles version. You Really got a hold on me? Same thing although I love their version also. Twist and shout? on and on. I'm not trying to put the Beatles down, but I understand why someone could get loaded and start shooting off his mouth to young audience members who most likely don't realize what an integral part of rock n roll he was. McCartneys one octave up scream he used all the time on his early songs is straight from LR, he should pay him royalties every time he does it.
If you listen to LR for a while then play the Beatles and you'll realize who was McCartneys major influence in both singing and rocking: Little Richard, can't be denied. Who is a billionaire and who is still playing comparativly small clubs for a pittance? (comparativly again) That's why they ***** and moan.
All those guy you mentioned Paul toured their a**es off to make their money, most of them died on or from the road.
If you listen to LR for a while then play the Beatles and you'll realize who was McCartneys major influence in both singing and rocking: Little Richard, can't be denied. Who is a billionaire and who is still playing comparativly small clubs for a pittance? (comparativly again) That's why they ***** and moan.
All those guy you mentioned Paul toured their a**es off to make their money, most of them died on or from the road.
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jingle_jangle
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The only guys I mentioned by name were Muddy and Howlin' Wolf, neither of whom did a whole lot of touring compared to most of the white acts of their day. In later years they were local guys who played Chicago bars and tap rooms and went to Europe if promoters paid enough. This also includes Bo Diddley.
Bob, I am old enough to have bought MOST of the people whom you mention on 45s when they first came out (at 49 to 69 cents a pop). Most of them are only a decade older than I am at the most. I am fully aware of the pioneers, because the record purchases of my generation made them so.
As for LR's "influence" on McCartney's singing, I guess you're referring to "I'm Down" and "Long Tall Sally". I wouldn't call it an influence, I'd call it an attempt to copy, and to me it often sounds asinine when white English middle class boys try to sound black, especially when they try to do an old Delta field holler, which is where LR got HIS screaming, second-hand, incidentally. Muddy's was the REAL thing.
I'm not (pun intended) seeing this as a white or black issue. There are various degrees of screwing that went on and go on. It's part and parcel of what makes any get-rich-quick business a risky proposition for the artist. Rewards are huge, but the sharks are patrolling. Still, to make any sense out of it, we'd have to examine individual cases. Broad generalizations may inflame us, but seldom lead to productive discourse.
And, yes, all the ones you mention except Gene Vincent were or are millionaires. Read their biographies. Shall I tell you about the time in 1970 that I saw Chuck Berry at a concert on the lawn at SIU in Carbondale IL, and he arrived from his spread near St. Louis in his own helicopter? And that was 1970! How much royalty $$$ has he collected in the 35 years since?
LR doesn't just blow his horn constantly because his stuff doesn't get played, he was always like that. "I am the greatest, etc."
I'm trying hard to see the point that you feel so passionately about, and it seems to be that we should respect the pioneers because they were pioneers. With that point I can only disagree, because it ignores critical faculty which we hopefully develop as we go through life. We should respect those who had a vision and got it out there to our ears through perseverance and hard work developing their talents and gifts. But I don't respect people for their luck, and that includes those fortunate to be born wealthy, unless they develop into human beings. And if there's one thing that stunts that development, it's too much money in the bank account, too young.
Bob, I am old enough to have bought MOST of the people whom you mention on 45s when they first came out (at 49 to 69 cents a pop). Most of them are only a decade older than I am at the most. I am fully aware of the pioneers, because the record purchases of my generation made them so.
As for LR's "influence" on McCartney's singing, I guess you're referring to "I'm Down" and "Long Tall Sally". I wouldn't call it an influence, I'd call it an attempt to copy, and to me it often sounds asinine when white English middle class boys try to sound black, especially when they try to do an old Delta field holler, which is where LR got HIS screaming, second-hand, incidentally. Muddy's was the REAL thing.
I'm not (pun intended) seeing this as a white or black issue. There are various degrees of screwing that went on and go on. It's part and parcel of what makes any get-rich-quick business a risky proposition for the artist. Rewards are huge, but the sharks are patrolling. Still, to make any sense out of it, we'd have to examine individual cases. Broad generalizations may inflame us, but seldom lead to productive discourse.
And, yes, all the ones you mention except Gene Vincent were or are millionaires. Read their biographies. Shall I tell you about the time in 1970 that I saw Chuck Berry at a concert on the lawn at SIU in Carbondale IL, and he arrived from his spread near St. Louis in his own helicopter? And that was 1970! How much royalty $$$ has he collected in the 35 years since?
LR doesn't just blow his horn constantly because his stuff doesn't get played, he was always like that. "I am the greatest, etc."
I'm trying hard to see the point that you feel so passionately about, and it seems to be that we should respect the pioneers because they were pioneers. With that point I can only disagree, because it ignores critical faculty which we hopefully develop as we go through life. We should respect those who had a vision and got it out there to our ears through perseverance and hard work developing their talents and gifts. But I don't respect people for their luck, and that includes those fortunate to be born wealthy, unless they develop into human beings. And if there's one thing that stunts that development, it's too much money in the bank account, too young.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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karl_teten
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jingle_jangle
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A good way to put it. I've heard it said that some such people (who shall remain nameless...) are "born on third base convinced that they hit a triple".
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
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roadrunners
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Well I'm happy to see that we have a lot of respect for the guys who originally synthesised our music here. When I refer to McCartneys getting his 'screams' from LR actually I'm talking about his whole vocal style until he abandoned it and started singing 'Silly Love Songs' because he had realized at that point he could have written any kind of krap he wanted to and have a hit with it which he did until he lost his popularity. He is now cashing in on his Beatle connection, at one point during the 70's he wouldn't even play Beatle songs he was so arrogant. (This is also why he plays his Hofner exclusively now, to emphasize his Beatle connection) I have a lot of Muddy Waters stuff as I am a big blues fan and I think he sings absolutely nothing like McCartney or LR, LR was an original. And of course you can't pay royalties on screams and riffs, if you could do that the rock n roll pioneers would own half the world right now and they'd owe some of it to Willie Dixon and the rest of the blues and country musicians. Music builds on music and it's just too bad, even if they have become millionaires which I have a hard time believing, they still missed the boat and most of them made their money after their initial hits were long gone by touring. I do not have a lot of emotional investment in this issue btw, I'm just surprised at the general disdain I see here for the real originators of rock n roll. The first real rock n roll record is generally accepted to have been Rocket 88 written by Ike Turner and Jackie Brenston in 1951. None of us are saints and yes LR has always had a big mouth and has always seemed to say exactly what's on his mind right or wrong, but let's give credit where credit is due, he is a legend and does not get his due.
Paul, I do not understand your point about luck and being born on third base, none of those guys had any money when they started out at all, in fact most were dirt poor, they certainly didn't have third base syndrome or whatever it's called, they worked hard at it like all of us working musicians do, they had the talent and the hard work and made it in an era in which they were used like factory workers are now, lots of output, little money. Also the fact that most were black certainly had a lot to do with their getting screwed as well, as we all know how tolerant our wonderful country was and how much better it is getting now (ha!) toward minorities. How much money do you think they made from their original hit records? Almost nothing.
I believe they should be respected as pioneers because pioneers are people who do a certain thing first, explore uncharted territory and they WERE pioneers and made this music first, they originated it And I'm sure that 99.9% of the money you paid for those singles went into their record companies pockets not theirs. This is a well known fact I'm surprised that more people here don't know these things or worse yet don't seem to care. For years when Chuck Berry toured he'd get paid with a paper bag full of cash he was so distrustful of all the people around him. I know this for a fact as I know people who have backed him up. The big money is in record sales, touring usually supports record sales, when they were touring with their hits their record companies were pocketing all their money. Even Elvis got screwed, Parker made as much if not more money than he did, when he died in 77 he didn't even have a million dollars left.
Paul, I do not understand your point about luck and being born on third base, none of those guys had any money when they started out at all, in fact most were dirt poor, they certainly didn't have third base syndrome or whatever it's called, they worked hard at it like all of us working musicians do, they had the talent and the hard work and made it in an era in which they were used like factory workers are now, lots of output, little money. Also the fact that most were black certainly had a lot to do with their getting screwed as well, as we all know how tolerant our wonderful country was and how much better it is getting now (ha!) toward minorities. How much money do you think they made from their original hit records? Almost nothing.
I believe they should be respected as pioneers because pioneers are people who do a certain thing first, explore uncharted territory and they WERE pioneers and made this music first, they originated it And I'm sure that 99.9% of the money you paid for those singles went into their record companies pockets not theirs. This is a well known fact I'm surprised that more people here don't know these things or worse yet don't seem to care. For years when Chuck Berry toured he'd get paid with a paper bag full of cash he was so distrustful of all the people around him. I know this for a fact as I know people who have backed him up. The big money is in record sales, touring usually supports record sales, when they were touring with their hits their record companies were pocketing all their money. Even Elvis got screwed, Parker made as much if not more money than he did, when he died in 77 he didn't even have a million dollars left.
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jingle_jangle
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Bob, you are perhaps taking me too literally, and I'll admit I did digress a bit with my comment about lucky sperm syndrome. No way was I intimating that any of the early greats were born with a silver spoon, etc. In fact, their relative poverty was their motivation and in many cases their inspiration. My only point is that people should be respected for the quality of their work and their ethical stances, not for their success and/or their money.
Muddy, on one hand, is timeless. Came out of poverty.
Is Paris Hilton? The things you are thinking about THAT lost bit of wealthy human protoplasm is exactly my point. Came out of wealth with no need to answer to anyone or to grow as a person. Waste of oxygen.
Bob, we agree on many things here. I have the same skepticism about McCartney that you display. (That may put us in a minority here!)
I am merely at odds with you when you speak of blind admiration for these guys, solely because they were first. I do not see LR as one of the majors, and I'm sure we disagree on that. It was a much less tolerant, conservative culture in those days, and LR became famous because he was a freak. I'm referring to his flamboyance and behavior, not his gayness. On that topic, I think his gayness was so obvious and he was so far "out", that the conservative, homophobic American public bought his records out of curiosity and a strange sort of solidarity that people get when they are dancing near the flame.
To me, that part of LR has little to do with musical talent, although it shows a tremendous genius for self-promotion. And it is this tireless self-promotion that is LR's strongest suit and, for me, his most irritating feature. It's IMO something he shares with McCartney.
On to Elvis: I think his best pop work was done in the early '60s, right after he got out of the Army. "Good Luck Charm" and "Return to Sender" were spot-on for the times.
But "In the Ghetto" from a decade later? Puh-leez.
Elvis first hired the Colonel out of a sense of fear at being ill-equipped to handle the out-of-control business aspects of his new career. He kept him on out of fear and laziness, and Parker wasted more than we'll ever know. He wasted Elvis, that's for sure.
Muddy, on one hand, is timeless. Came out of poverty.
Is Paris Hilton? The things you are thinking about THAT lost bit of wealthy human protoplasm is exactly my point. Came out of wealth with no need to answer to anyone or to grow as a person. Waste of oxygen.
Bob, we agree on many things here. I have the same skepticism about McCartney that you display. (That may put us in a minority here!)
I am merely at odds with you when you speak of blind admiration for these guys, solely because they were first. I do not see LR as one of the majors, and I'm sure we disagree on that. It was a much less tolerant, conservative culture in those days, and LR became famous because he was a freak. I'm referring to his flamboyance and behavior, not his gayness. On that topic, I think his gayness was so obvious and he was so far "out", that the conservative, homophobic American public bought his records out of curiosity and a strange sort of solidarity that people get when they are dancing near the flame.
To me, that part of LR has little to do with musical talent, although it shows a tremendous genius for self-promotion. And it is this tireless self-promotion that is LR's strongest suit and, for me, his most irritating feature. It's IMO something he shares with McCartney.
On to Elvis: I think his best pop work was done in the early '60s, right after he got out of the Army. "Good Luck Charm" and "Return to Sender" were spot-on for the times.
But "In the Ghetto" from a decade later? Puh-leez.
Elvis first hired the Colonel out of a sense of fear at being ill-equipped to handle the out-of-control business aspects of his new career. He kept him on out of fear and laziness, and Parker wasted more than we'll ever know. He wasted Elvis, that's for sure.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
That's funny because I put LR's stuff right up with Johnny Cash, Orbison, Berry etc. I really don't think anyone knew he was gay, to me that would have been the death-nell of his career like JLL's marriage to his 13 YO cousin was, but I was not around back then so you may have something there, I was born in 53 and only remember Purple People Eater, Alvin and The chipmunks (all the quality stuff haha!) and big big hits from that era firsthand. I remember the novelty records the best being the kid that I was, that and Volare which I used to absolutely love when I was a kid.
You just simply heard the standard LR fare. He has been on many late talk shows saying I am the most beautiful man in the world and I am the greatest. In fact he may have infulenced Alie to all of that in his fight game.
However his early work did infulence everyone in rock at the time. You might even say that rock today is a pyramid build on the efforts of all rock players. With out one it would be a little shorter.
However his early work did infulence everyone in rock at the time. You might even say that rock today is a pyramid build on the efforts of all rock players. With out one it would be a little shorter.
