6 to 12 conversion??? (newbie content)

porge · Post by **porge** » Sun May 22, 2005 4:13 pm

Hi to all,

Sorry for the stupid question, but I have a 90's 340/6 that's nice, but beat, and wanted a twelve. After trawling ebay for a while, I thought "Can I convert this one?". Whaddaya think? I've built guitars before, and having played some ric 12's recently think they're the same superstructure as the 6's. Anybody else been stoopid enough to try this?

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Sun May 22, 2005 6:28 pm

Don't take this wrong , but if you've built guitars before(not to be confused with buying necks/bodies/hardware premade then bolting them together) what's to stop you? It's basically the same instrument. Slot the peg head, drill the extra holes, change the bridge and top nut, add the octave tuners, and you're in 12 string heaven. Welcome to the Rick Forum Andrew.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun May 22, 2005 7:57 pm

And please post before and after pics! Welcome, Andrew.

fabgear · Post by **fabgear** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:27 am

You'd have to also add a veneer to the back of the headstock to thicken up the head. Once glued on, you can taper it to match the back of the neck's volute shape.

larry_mondello · Post by **larry_mondello** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:00 am

Basicly the same guitar ...except the headstock is a different layout for the tuners , and the outside shape .

The slot for the tuners use a 1/4" bit (try a mill bit instead of a router bit) you can get solid carbide mill bits with a downward cutter to do this .

The trick is the slots ... but you need to drill the for the tuners BEFORE you slot the headstock or you will have blow out .

The next thing to be aware of .. is the tuner layout on a six is not as critical as a 12 string .. so some machine heads may be of differing distances to the side of the headstock .

My suggestion is this ... make a dumby neck first . Use a 2X4 ,as they are cheap and easy to obtain and machine.... then copy the exact shape of the existing headstock ... next drill the existing tuner holes ... then layout the side mounted tuners .
If it works there .. proceed .
If you have problems ... you did NOT screw up a good guitar .

Happy carving

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:09 am

"The trick is the slots"

No truer words have been spoken! The slots are CURVED in plan view, although of constant depth. You'll need a plunge router and a good set of MDF patterns. You can finish the tapers with a rattail file. Lots of sanding here. Whether you use a mill or router bit (the router bit, with its vertical flutes, will be easier to control), make sure it is a NEW carbide one. You don't want to be sanding out burn marks from maple!

Larry's right--drill the horizontal tuner holes first. before you route the slots.

This all calls for careful planning and clean execution. Take a deep breath, Andrew.

larry_mondello · Post by **larry_mondello** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:18 am

Another point .... the headstock thickness of a 12 string is about .650" to .675"

The six string is thinner .

So what tuners will you use ? what tuners are on it now ?

Suggestions ; Schaller M6 mini's come stock .. and have a smaller casing than any Kluson type . However ... they have a two step shaft .Some tricking drilling !
The Gotoh line has many tuners .. for weight reduction .. try the bean button open gear tuners ...great quality , really vintage looking , avaiable from many sources , cost effective ... and the casing is narrow ... just might work for layout purposes better than standard Kluson tuners ... those will certainly hang over the edge of the headstock ... but then it will look more like a 1970's Rick if you use them ! LOL !really .. check it out some time .

brian · Post by **brian** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:18 am

(Just a thought) By the time you figure all the costs for new parts, tools, and materials, maybe it would be almost as price effective to sell it and buy a twelve string.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:37 am

A better thought...keep it and buy a 12, too.

larry_mondello · Post by **larry_mondello** » Mon May 23, 2005 9:31 am

I agree

porge · Post by **porge** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:33 pm

Thanks to all. And thanks for the warm welcome! My building experience has been "from scratch" apart from pickup winding (next challenge). I've considered trying to build one from scratch as well. I'm on the verge of doing the "keep it and get a twelve as well theory". Anybody got a cheap 12 they don't want anymore?!?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:43 pm

Please post some pics of guitars you've built from scratch! We're eager to see what members are up to in their rare spare seconds!

Building a Rickenbacker from scratch is a snap, with good drawings, a computer-controlled woodworking center, ability and desire to sand your fingers to nubbins, a nice walk-in spray booth, electronic ability, access to fine hardwoods, and the chutzpah and tenacity to see it through. But it'll never be the real magilla!

Better to buy one. Cheap? Nah. Plan on about $800-1200 for a usable workhorse that doesn't need a lot of work. Worth every farthing.

porge · Post by **porge** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:50 pm

"So what tuners will you use ? what tuners are on it now ? "

Hey Larry - It currently has mini grovers on it.

Suggestions ; Schaller M6 mini's come stock .. and have a smaller casing than any Kluson type . However ... they have a two step shaft .Some tricking drilling !
The Gotoh line has many tuners .. for weight reduction .. try the bean button open gear tuners ...great quality , really vintage looking , avaiable from many sources , cost effective ... and the casing is narrow ... just might work for layout purposes better

I actually had this one "covered" (I think) - I was going to go to Gotoh kluson style locking tuners. I figured they would be easier to string up (I have done a 12str. re-string recently...a nice way to spend an afteroon

, and the case fits well on the 6 string headstock.

On the cheap twelve front, I saw a FG 330/12 on ebay yesterday for $799 B-I-N, but the buyer wouldn't accept payment from overseas (I'm in Australia). I understand him beign cautious (I'm selling a Guild Starfire V on ebay, and have had a few scammers approach me)...that's cool...but I was tearing my (thinning) hair out!!!

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:58 pm

Andrew, allow me to politely and respectfully suggest that if you find drilling the counterbored holes for M6's is tricky, that you should possibly reconsider scratchbuilding a Rick 12.

I mean this half seriously, half-jokingly, but, man, I've been repairing and refinishing guitars for 3 decades, and have built my share of bolt-up Fender-type solidbodies. Still, it would take major doses of courage/madness pills to get me to attempt a Rick-type semi-hollow from scratch! And a 12? Well, that just adds icing on the cake.

If you want to buy a 12 Stateside and have it shipped, I'd be glad to help you, but contact our Forum friends Ron Viney and Howard Bishop, both of whom have done same and can fill you in on procedures, duties, taxes, etc.

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:43 pm

Aha!! So you've got the Guild, Andrew? Nice!

"Cheap 12 string Rick" - is there any such thing?

Best you speak to Ron Viney or Darren Trott regarding buying from the US. I haven't attempted it yet - my purchases have been local.

BTW, welcome to the forum from another Aussie. Enjoy the camaraderie!!