My little 4-piece band (standard 2 guitar, bass, drums lineup) practices in a school classroom. My current way of recording our practices is a bit primitive and I'm looking to find a better way.
I have an old (but decent quality) cassette tapedeck (needle vu-meters etc) with a left and right mic input. I run good quality (AKG) mics on long cords (1/4" jack into the tape deck) to the top of the cabinets at the back of the room.
After making the recordings, I upload the tapes to computer (using Roxio Easy CD Creator's "Capture from Analog" feature). Then after saving to .wav format I clip out the desired material (using NGWave), and burn to CDs (using Nero Express).
Time consuming? YES! Good quality? ok, but surely not the best.
Anyone got any good ideas on what I should get in order to improve the recordings? Certainly recording directly onto a digital platform would save time and likely give a better product.
Keep in mind that I dont need an expensive multi-track deck. All I'm trying to do is capture the true sound of the live practice session. I'm thinking I need "simple but good".
I figured that a few of you whacky Ric fanatics would be able to steer me in the right direction....
Making demo recordings - WHAT's THE BEST WAY?
Making demo recordings - WHAT's THE BEST WAY?
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
Kent,
My band and I have been through exactly the same situation, and I will be happy to share with you how we solved the situation. This is going to get a bit detailed... if I lose you, be sure to post or email for clarification.
I used to tape every practice we had onto cassettes with an old '79 Panasonic boombox that had stereo inputs. It was nice for what it did (the natural compression was really kinda stunning), but it was super work-intensive to take those cassettes, boil them down to the real stuff, and burn it to Cd.
I will add that the reason we did all this - the real reason it is so important - is that we would often jam up awesome song ideas, and if the tape wasn't rolling, the idea was subject to the consequences of varying memories.
Okay, here's the solution we arrived at:
I had bought (a couple of years ago) a Philips CD burner, one of the home-audio units that you can get for burning CD to CD, etc, and it had RCA inputs and outputs, in addition to other ins/outs. This would figure to be the ultimate recorder (see below).
In a stroke of enlightenment, I figured out how to do the following:
Use 2 (now 3) quality microphones (we use Shure SM-58's & SM-57's). Run the mics into an 8-channel Carvin mixer (yours may vary). Pan them left and right, as desired. Run an output from the Carvin mixer (RCA cable) into a Sony Tape deck (bear with me -- the Tape Deck is optional, but it gives you an additional gain control). Have the Sony tape deck set to Record-Pause. That way, you can send the input signal back out through the RCA output cables, and use the Record Level knob as a level control.
Send the signal from the Sony tape deck into the home stereo Philips CD burner. Here's where the efficiencies come in. I use both the 8-channel mixer output level and the tape deck level to control input level into the CD burner. Make sure it's not redlining too much.
The tape deck is 100% optional. I just use it as a gain boost/control, and I know that the audiophiles reading this will scream bloody murder at that, but it is effective for my purpose, ie. getting a good digital recording of jam ideas. The mixer is essential, but just about any mixer should work for this purpose. Just consider the capabilities when hooking it up.
Here's where it all gets cool - You can burn the band rehearsals to CD directly, real-time, on the spot. I play bass, and hit the 'record' and 'pause' buttons as we go. The Philips unit is super cool, because it starts a new track on the CD every time you pause the recording and go again. So... I burn directly to CD, while playing bass and singing with the band, too.
I know that there are a lot of bits of information in this post, and I may not have been as clear as possible. Let me know any questions, and I will clarify.
Bottom line... the method we use results in a CD digital copy of everything from each band practice, on the spot, as recorded. I believe that's what you're after!
My band and I have been through exactly the same situation, and I will be happy to share with you how we solved the situation. This is going to get a bit detailed... if I lose you, be sure to post or email for clarification.
I used to tape every practice we had onto cassettes with an old '79 Panasonic boombox that had stereo inputs. It was nice for what it did (the natural compression was really kinda stunning), but it was super work-intensive to take those cassettes, boil them down to the real stuff, and burn it to Cd.
I will add that the reason we did all this - the real reason it is so important - is that we would often jam up awesome song ideas, and if the tape wasn't rolling, the idea was subject to the consequences of varying memories.
Okay, here's the solution we arrived at:
I had bought (a couple of years ago) a Philips CD burner, one of the home-audio units that you can get for burning CD to CD, etc, and it had RCA inputs and outputs, in addition to other ins/outs. This would figure to be the ultimate recorder (see below).
In a stroke of enlightenment, I figured out how to do the following:
Use 2 (now 3) quality microphones (we use Shure SM-58's & SM-57's). Run the mics into an 8-channel Carvin mixer (yours may vary). Pan them left and right, as desired. Run an output from the Carvin mixer (RCA cable) into a Sony Tape deck (bear with me -- the Tape Deck is optional, but it gives you an additional gain control). Have the Sony tape deck set to Record-Pause. That way, you can send the input signal back out through the RCA output cables, and use the Record Level knob as a level control.
Send the signal from the Sony tape deck into the home stereo Philips CD burner. Here's where the efficiencies come in. I use both the 8-channel mixer output level and the tape deck level to control input level into the CD burner. Make sure it's not redlining too much.
The tape deck is 100% optional. I just use it as a gain boost/control, and I know that the audiophiles reading this will scream bloody murder at that, but it is effective for my purpose, ie. getting a good digital recording of jam ideas. The mixer is essential, but just about any mixer should work for this purpose. Just consider the capabilities when hooking it up.
Here's where it all gets cool - You can burn the band rehearsals to CD directly, real-time, on the spot. I play bass, and hit the 'record' and 'pause' buttons as we go. The Philips unit is super cool, because it starts a new track on the CD every time you pause the recording and go again. So... I burn directly to CD, while playing bass and singing with the band, too.
I know that there are a lot of bits of information in this post, and I may not have been as clear as possible. Let me know any questions, and I will clarify.
Bottom line... the method we use results in a CD digital copy of everything from each band practice, on the spot, as recorded. I believe that's what you're after!
If you've access to a decent mixer with some direct outs (like the RCA stereo outs on our Mackie 1604), you can record straight into a MiniDisc Walkman like we do. It would require a signal from every instrument, but it has given us outstanding results that capture every flubbed bass note, sloppy drum fill and squealy, wanky guitar solo. 
This is how we record our gigs so that we can critique our performances after the adrenalin rush has passed.
The material is easy enough to dump from the MD onto my computer where I can edit to my heart's delight!
This is how we record our gigs so that we can critique our performances after the adrenalin rush has passed.
The material is easy enough to dump from the MD onto my computer where I can edit to my heart's delight!My first bass was a Rickenbacker...
My best bass is a Rickenbacker...
My last bass may very well be a Rickenbacker
My best bass is a Rickenbacker...
My last bass may very well be a Rickenbacker
Wow... thanks for all that. I'm most interested in Dean's idea. Burning realtime onto a cd is AWSOME. I think understand it... and if I decide to, I can use my current tape deck in that process.
But I'm kinda starting from scratch here. The band uses a decent quality Yamaha 8-channel mixer but of course that is occupied.
Can you give me some brand/model names so I can start looking? I'd like to try to keep the price down if I can. A few hundred is doable.
8-channel mixer ? Having additional (more than just two) mics sounds great. I see this one that looks like a possibility...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41474&item=7323892767&rd=1
CD burner ? .... I suppose any brand will do. Are there specific features I should look for? I guess I dont need any cd changer capability and I want it to be a portable stand-alone unit... not one meant to go into a computer. For instance, I see this one....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27177&item=5198409345&rd=1
YIPES!!!!... I'm already seeing the great potential here!
But I'm kinda starting from scratch here. The band uses a decent quality Yamaha 8-channel mixer but of course that is occupied.
Can you give me some brand/model names so I can start looking? I'd like to try to keep the price down if I can. A few hundred is doable.
8-channel mixer ? Having additional (more than just two) mics sounds great. I see this one that looks like a possibility...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41474&item=7323892767&rd=1
CD burner ? .... I suppose any brand will do. Are there specific features I should look for? I guess I dont need any cd changer capability and I want it to be a portable stand-alone unit... not one meant to go into a computer. For instance, I see this one....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27177&item=5198409345&rd=1
YIPES!!!!... I'm already seeing the great potential here!
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
Kent, sorry about the length of that last post - I got to typing fast and it just kinda rolled out.
The other setups sound like they would work okay too, depending on what you wanted to do. Alvaro's idea has some editing possibilities but involves an extra step. The equipment might be more affordable with his idea, though.
Some key features for the CD burner:
- RCA input jacks
- capability to record & pause-record on the fly
You would need a separate mixer from the one you use to amplify the mic's at rehearsal. The mixer needs to have RCA out jacks. Stereo panning capability on each channel is a real nice plus, if possible.
The tape deck I mentioned is purely optional. You could run straight from the mixer into the CD burner. The tape deck adds an additional volume control and another set of LEDs to watch.
We used 2 microphones for a while. I set up one by the guitarist and one by me on bass, and used trial and error to catch the vocals and drums. Panned one hard left, one hard right for some definition. Again, the goal isn't high fidelity as much as it is an accurate capture of the rehearsal ideas. I found it hard to get the vocals loud enough in the mix, so I added a third microphone on one of the monitors to sweeten up the vocals a bit.
As far as brands, my mixer is a 10-year old Carvin similar to this one:
http://www.carvin.com/products/mixer.php?ItemNumber=XP880
My CD Recorder is a Philips home audio one like this:
http://store.yahoo.com/efunctional/philcdcdrec.html
It is awesome to be able to record direct to CD. I make copies of all of our band practices and give them to the guys in the band. I am religious about labeling each track, which has helped tremendously when we go back and listen to old song ideas when songwriting. Be sure to *STAR* the good ideas... if you're like us, you will have a huge pile of CDs soon.
Good luck, and remember to make sure that the input and output jacks are compatible - RCA to RCA is what I use.
The other setups sound like they would work okay too, depending on what you wanted to do. Alvaro's idea has some editing possibilities but involves an extra step. The equipment might be more affordable with his idea, though.
Some key features for the CD burner:
- RCA input jacks
- capability to record & pause-record on the fly
You would need a separate mixer from the one you use to amplify the mic's at rehearsal. The mixer needs to have RCA out jacks. Stereo panning capability on each channel is a real nice plus, if possible.
The tape deck I mentioned is purely optional. You could run straight from the mixer into the CD burner. The tape deck adds an additional volume control and another set of LEDs to watch.
We used 2 microphones for a while. I set up one by the guitarist and one by me on bass, and used trial and error to catch the vocals and drums. Panned one hard left, one hard right for some definition. Again, the goal isn't high fidelity as much as it is an accurate capture of the rehearsal ideas. I found it hard to get the vocals loud enough in the mix, so I added a third microphone on one of the monitors to sweeten up the vocals a bit.
As far as brands, my mixer is a 10-year old Carvin similar to this one:
http://www.carvin.com/products/mixer.php?ItemNumber=XP880
My CD Recorder is a Philips home audio one like this:
http://store.yahoo.com/efunctional/philcdcdrec.html
It is awesome to be able to record direct to CD. I make copies of all of our band practices and give them to the guys in the band. I am religious about labeling each track, which has helped tremendously when we go back and listen to old song ideas when songwriting. Be sure to *STAR* the good ideas... if you're like us, you will have a huge pile of CDs soon.
Good luck, and remember to make sure that the input and output jacks are compatible - RCA to RCA is what I use.
there appears to be RCA out of the back... but even the 1/4" out jacks on the top can be gender-bendered into RCA... I dont think theres a problem there.
I like what you said about the additional mics and the panning. I'm looking at the Phillips decks. I guess for this purpose I really dont need a dual deck.
Basically what we're doing here is creating a little recording studio with cd burner like those sold by Rascam and Fostex etc..... but at a fraction of the price. Right?
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
Yes, the setup I use is basically putting stuff I already had together and coming up with a super-handy band rehearsal CD recorder.
I'm not really familiar with the CD burning portastudios that are available now... haven't shopped for those things for a while. I have a Tascam minidisc portastudio, but I use that only for songwriting where I'm taking a drum machine line and layering bass and guitar parts on top of it.
You ought to look at all of your options, though. If nothing else, the system I described should meet your needs for burning straight to CD during rehearsal. Shop around, though....
I'm not really familiar with the CD burning portastudios that are available now... haven't shopped for those things for a while. I have a Tascam minidisc portastudio, but I use that only for songwriting where I'm taking a drum machine line and layering bass and guitar parts on top of it.
You ought to look at all of your options, though. If nothing else, the system I described should meet your needs for burning straight to CD during rehearsal. Shop around, though....
yea, your system sounds like its right up my alley. I just want to capture the true sound as a learning tool for us.
I bought the Peavey mixer pictured above. I'd like to find as compact a cd burner (with the RCA input jacks) as possible. Then I'll mount them in a little attache case and be all set for practice and live recording also.
BTW... the mics I'm using are AKG D880's. Good mic for the money. I'm thinking that the quality of the mic itself is probably the biggest factor in getting a faithfull recording.
We'll see.... I'll for sure let you know how it goes.
I bought the Peavey mixer pictured above. I'd like to find as compact a cd burner (with the RCA input jacks) as possible. Then I'll mount them in a little attache case and be all set for practice and live recording also.
BTW... the mics I'm using are AKG D880's. Good mic for the money. I'm thinking that the quality of the mic itself is probably the biggest factor in getting a faithfull recording.
We'll see.... I'll for sure let you know how it goes.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” ....H. L. Mencken
Yes, the quality of the mics is definitely the most important item in the chain. We use Shure SM-58's and SM-57 Betas, and in addition to being bulletproof, they sound great. We also have some Carvin microphones that came with our PA system in a package, and they are noticably worse than the Shures - thinner and tinnier.
Good luck with the recordings. Mic placement is everything - give it a go in several locations.
Good luck with the recordings. Mic placement is everything - give it a go in several locations.
