Over playing

nattiep · Post by **nattiep** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:20 am

Well is it? I just figured out the first guitar solo from "Comfortably Numb" on bass. I play along to the Cd most (all, sadly) of the time and I wonder if I should stop doing the solo. I also overplay the bass solo at the end of "Red Barchetta". I tried to copy Geddy's playing from a P/G (Grace Under Pressure for you non Rush "freaks") tour bootleg. He played the hell out of the end of that song.

I'm not one to hold back. When I get bored I start improvising and over playing. Usually during any song without busy bass (or no bass, just keyboards) during a guitar solo I start to make stuff up. One time at my dad's house I got bored playing Pink Floyd's "Dogs" and I started "getting busy". Well my dad is a big Pink Floyd buff and I ended up getting yelled at for not keeping it "simple".
"Stop over playing and keep it the way it was written: simple. Roger is a master of simplicity."

Does it have its time and place or should I stop doing it altogether?

I look forward to the comments and suggestions you guys have to offer.

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:35 am

Playing a lot of notes and 'overplaying' are not necessarily the same.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:35 am

Sometimes you need to lay back and play what the song needs (like Roger), and sometimes it's OK to "let it fly". I usually don't "go off" during a guitar solo or something like that because it's someone else's turn to go off, I'll get my chance later.
With Rush stuff, I feel the parts are good enough as is, if there is a chance to go off, why not, because it is about that with them.

teeder · Post by **teeder** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:59 am

I think if you do it all the time you'll go blind ... oh wait that's something else.

If you let it fly all the time you loose the effect.
It's more dynamic if you hold back some. Always keep them wanting more!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:29 am

there are several ideas on this ... some say that a bass is a percussion instrument and should never be played like a guitar ... I believe it is a Bass Guitar ... it is a bridge between the drums and guitars ... I have seen some bass players who play too many notes during the whole song ... and some who moronically follow the root note of the chord only ...

I play pretty tight and compact and then tear loose with fast rifs as accents or solos where it fits in ... for me Roger Waters plays a little too simple sometimes ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:30 am

do it till you need glasses ...

edski · Post by **edski** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:04 am

Agree with everyone basically. Jeff is right on IMO that the bass is a bridge between the percussion and the guitar/keyboard. Inasmuch, your bass playing should try to be complimentary to both aspects of the ensemble.

How that is accomplished makes up your "style"...but just as sometimes a good guitar solo can have a single note held onto for a very long time (e.g. Steve Hackett's solo in "Firth of Fifth"), sometimes it's appropriate as a bassist to play a pedal note, or just a simple line that follows the root. Other times a more contrapuntal approach is needed. Then once in a while you can let loose.

The key is to place things in context correctly. Too many notes when some other element of the music is supposed to be emphasized, then you're "too busy". But in a song by a band like Rush you could be simplifying the bass line and still be playing more notes than would be considered busy for a Styx tune (talk about generally boring bass parts)...

As for Roger Waters...any interesting bass lines on Pink Floyed recording were most likely recorded by David Gilmour.

Roger Waters is really NOT a very good bass player (ducking)...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri May 27, 2005 8:14 am

Lock in with the drummer and you'll never go wrong and save your virtuosity for your solos or you'll end up playing alone in your room a lot, with bass less is more much of the time, listen to your father you young whippersnapper!

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Fri May 27, 2005 8:19 am

But...lock your keys in your car and it'll take an hour to get the drummer out.

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Fri May 27, 2005 9:09 am

As a rhythm guitarist and only a hack bass player, I agree with the "depends on the song" philosophy. Adding complication to what should be a simple line, to me, does not sound 'right' most of the time, probably because the bass does tend to set the beat of the song along with the drums.

On the other hand, listen to the bass line in The Who's Heaven and Hell; it is the bass that really drives that whole song, from beginning to end.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri May 27, 2005 9:41 am

Overplaying in one song would be way too simple in another, I think inappropriate playing would be a better title of this thread. In most of The Who's songs Entwistle is very busy, to me that's not overplaying. If you play a Booker T and The MG's tune like Green Onions and go nuts all over the place on the neck, now that's over playing to me.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Fri May 27, 2005 12:32 pm

In The Who, I think Entwistle made up for Pete's more "Chord-y" style by showing a little flash. (well, more than a little!) It was part of the style of the band.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri May 27, 2005 12:54 pm

Yeah, he and Moon. I've played in a lot of three piece rock bands in my time and you get to do things with them you can't get away with with two guitars. You can get right up there with the lead guitarist and match them, give them a run for their money, haha! I do it now with my three piece. When I play blues I'm just the opposite, I stick right with the drummer, the whole band plays together as a unit in blues, one part of a whole.

johnashfield · Post by **johnashfield** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:24 pm

One way to avoid over playing is to make sure your parts have a melodic line. McCartney's bassline in "something" is very busy, on the verge of overplaying, but since it's a beautiful line (IMHO) it is perfect.

In fact on the George tribute concert I wished McCartney picked up his Ric and played it. I missed hearing the bass part.

nattiep · Post by **nattiep** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:51 pm

I don't think Waters is all that good either. One great bass line was "Stay" from Obscured By Clouds. I think Dave played that too. The fretless bass at the beginning of "Hey You" is Dave. Roger sticks with the D octave too much. When I listenn to Floyd and toger starts to play octaves I usually say "He's doing it again!"

I play alone in my room all of the time right now. I don't have any equipment to go on stage with yet. so I never hold back... I mean no one important will hear me.

I completely agree with everything Rath said.

What about learning parts from bootlegs? The extra thing for the Rush song I got from a bootleg. Is learning arrangements from bootlegs a good thing?