Trapeze or R tail piece for 12-string ?

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Thu May 26, 2005 6:47 pm

Hey gang, I was thinking of putting a trapeze tail piece on my 360-12VP FG, to give it more of a vintage look and distinction apart from my other Ric's, but also, I have heard the re-stringing is easier. Can anyone comment on this? It looks like the holes are big enough so that the strings could still fall out while re-stringing. Is it as good as the R tail piece, in terms of maintaining tone, tune, and intonation? I am also worried about having two strings per slot. That seems precarious.

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:46 pm

Get the vintage trapeze tail piece. Retro looking and so much easier to change strings.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:05 pm

The trapeze works great with 2 strings per slot & the holes are not big enough for the strings to fall out.
This is a personal thing, but I think that a trapeze on a 360 would look quite odd, as they were never made to have one (although I was told that you could special order it). If the 360 is a modern 24 fret model, then I think it would look even odder IMO.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:13 am

And there you have it, Steve. Oregon vs. Devon in a playoff match not to be missed. Both with brief, well-considered, and succinct distillations of the two polar views on trapeze tailpieces!

Where does that leave you, however? My guess is...still worried.

loverickbass · Post by **loverickbass** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:34 am

BTW, you have to drill new holes for the trapeze. That could mean trouble later if you want to go back to the "R".

Cole

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:03 am

Excellent point Cole. After you restring your 12 string with the trapeze, however, I doubt that you will go back. I also have found the trapeze to be less susceptible to shifting from side to side. Much easier and quicker when replacing a broken string under gig pressure too!

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:22 am

Yes, I hate to drill new holes into the guitar, but, if you never plan to go back, then it shouldn't matter. I think I can just drill the top ones, and if I ever decide to back back to the R, the new holes wouldn't show. Anthony, I saw a picture of a 370/12VP 24-fret, with trapeze tail piece, it looks great !

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:39 am

That is right Steve. You really don't have to go all hog or none on this change.

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:53 am

This guitar already has a few vintage touches already - reshaped TRC, rounded pickguard edges, toasters, etc., even though it's a new guitar. A Ric expert told me the best way to re-string a 12 on the trapeze is to insert one string from beneath the trapeze hole, and the other from above the trapeze hole, that way, they won't get all mangled together. Do y'all do it this way ?

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:58 am

What, a 24 fret with a trapeze AND toasters.....

I know we're all different, but I find that look firmly in no mans land...not vintage & not modern, a sort of mish mash of ideas. A trapeze with a large headstock? (not so obvious on the 12's admittetdly). I find the 360WB to be the same.
However, I must stress that this is only my feeling, but I can actually see nothing really wrong with any of it...if it works, then do it! I put vintage knobs on everything, so I'm guilty myself of breaking my own rules!

A good idea though to only use two screws. If you do it, then please post a pic, I'd love to eat my words!

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:06 am

Steve, you might want to take a look under your 'R' tailpiece before you proceed with the trapeze. I was going to do a similar conversion on my '80 620/12 until I removed the 'R' bracket. I found it left a big mark on the face of the guitar in the Fireglo finish that wasn't going to be covered by the trapeze. It ruined my whole plan. I was going to put a newly purchased Accent on my 360V64, put the trapeze from the 360V64 on my 620/12, and then put the 'R' from the 620/12 on my 370/12. The 370/12 tailpiece was slightly pitted. I advise taking a look before you leap!

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:07 am

It's really not a problem to string Steve & you get used to it very quickly.

larry_mondello · Post by **larry_mondello** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:34 am

I also spoke to that "expert" and he told me that in doing his mods to Steve's Rick ..he de-burred the "R" tailpiece before he restrung it .
A standard feature on his 'mod' list .

I too think that the Vintage tailpiece is THE way to go ....too bad it only has 6 holes .

If you look at George Harrison's 12 in HARD DAYS NIGHT ... you will see he strung his - 'Over & Under' .

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:40 am

Great advice Randy, these are the very things that concern me ! I will look underneath when I get home. Can you see the mark while the R tail piece is on the guitar ? Of course, I need to wear out these strings first, I probably can't keep the same strings after replacing the tail piece.

Anthony, I understand your purist viewpoint, but I see modern Ric's with vintage touches all the time, they still ooh and ahh me like any other. If I had read this forum, prior to my purchase, I probably would have gone for a 360v64-12, or waited for the 360c63-12 (even though they cost alot more). However, I ended up with this one, and after Mark Arnquist made it play so well, my investment in it is even higher. A trapeze tail piece would make it easier to work with, and it wouldn't look as similar to my other Ric's. I have a picture at home of someone else's 370/12VP MG with 24 frets and a trapeze, I will post later.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:42 am

Tony: I swear could pick out one of your guitars from 50 paces. All of those balled ends just put in at random eh?