Lennon's Gibson J160E

[joepee]

The Beatles aficionados at Voxtalks have had many an interesting thread about the Gibson j-160e. Many owners of these guitars have said it is almost impossible to tell the difference between a j-160e plugged into an Vox AC30 or an Rickenbacker 325 plugged into a Vox AC30.

I'm convinced many of The Beatles early songs are played on the Gibson plugged into an amp. The Gibson sounds very much like an electric guitar and nothing like an acoustic when plugged into an amp.

Many owners of these j-160e guitars say the 50s ones with the laminated tops don't sound great acoustically. But if you record one through a Neumann U-47 acoustically, they sound amazingly Beatle-like.

I don't own a Gibson. I own a Tokai imitation of a j-160e. And plugged into an amp, I can make it sound very much like my Epiphone Casino. It just sounds like an electric guitar.

Great thread!!!

[karl_teten]

The 50's to early 60's J160E's are all made structurally the same.

The Beatles Gibsons were ply top, ladder braced just like the ones in the 50's.

They were designed that way to prevent feedback.

The vintage J160E's do not sound that brilliant acoustically but do record well.

A 325 on the neck pickup only can get a close J160E sound.

Glen Lambert offers an historically correct 325 loom (harness) to get the selections Lennon used on his first 325.

[admin]

Karl: Fortunately, for all of us, the ladder braced design was not foolproof in controlling feedback. "I Feel Fine" about that though.

[karl_teten]

He he he......

I don't think Gibson had an AC100 in mind when they designed the J160E. lol

[patrickkelly]

Actually, the "IFF" feedback was caused by the "A" string vibrating against the fretboard, not from a vibration of the top of the guitar. So, in this case, the laminated top/ladder bracing did its job.

Perhaps there's no way to eliminate this type of feedback from any acoustic guitar, since the air moving in and out of the soundhole can cause the strings to get into a sympathetic wave and oscillate violently. But I'm no physicist, so I'll just step aside now...

[admin]

I woke up yesterday morning (no this is not the line of a country tune) to pouring rain and a high temperature of 8 degrees Celsius, to the sound of a loud thud on the front porch. I sprang to the window and looked outside, only to see the Sears catalog had arrived. I'll save the rest of the poem until December. But, this smart remark came back to bite me as you may have guessed. It was the FALL AND WINTER 2005 SEARS Catalog on May 21st.

So I stayed inside and got to tinkering with an older guitar I purchased in 1967. The purchase of this acoustic guitar was prompted by The Beatles J160E. I ended up getting a Gibson J50 and within a few months also purchased a DeArmond pickup. A photo of this type of pickup is shown below. Note that this would be a 1967 DeArmond and the company already was compensating for the tendency of the A string to feedback. This pickup can be played at quite a high volume through the Vox AC-30 without feedback or causing the A string to vibrate as it readily does with the active Fishman Matrix Natural I onboard.



This pickup was also billed as an acoustic guitar microphone and I used it for a couple of years before putting it away in a drawer. I wish I knew the model but alas I did not save the box.

The Gibson J50 is a different beast compared to the J160E, however, I figured what the heck, it's a rainy day and I don't recall what it sounded like. I have also noticed that this pickup now sells for more on Ebay than I paid for the guitar!

Well, I was shocked to hear the sound of this guitar and pickup through the low gain input of the brilliant channel with the treble, bass pots turned up 3/4 and the cut pot turned up about 7/8ths.

The sound (blows away the piezo pickup under the bridge) at least as far as Beatles and British Invasion music is concerned. From "If I Fell" to "Happy Just To Dance With You" and in between the tonality is very very close. Of course, I had to try "I Feel Fine" which was also a treat.

I tried both pickups passive and active but it was not as close as the passive DeArmond pickup alone.

I will experiment more, but it seems to me that the electric component is likely to be the greater portion of the sound achieved in the studio. I did not have a set of flatwounds and did my sound check using John Pearse round wounds.

I have to echo what has been said earlier in this thread, that it is very difficult to believe how close this acoustic with the passive pickup is to an electric guitar. The Celestion Blues really transform this sound perhaps even more than the sound of a number of electric guitars I have tried.

I can hardly wait to hear what flatwounds will do to this tonality.

I will be the first to acknowledge that the look of this pickup is not the pretty picture of the J160E to which I have become accustomed. The sound, however, surely let a little sunshine show on my face on such as rainy day. "But, tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."

[admin]

As a further comment on the pickup on the Gibson J160E, the P-90 has great tone although a bit noisy. The Epiphone J160E Reissue appears have used the P-100 humbucking model although I simple have seen it referred to typically as a mini-humbucker.

I suspect the humbucking pickup is used in the Epiphone in an attempt to reduce the noise. The downside is that this pickup is more sterile and does not have the thicker sound of the P-90, hence a thinner sound. One way to compensate for the thinner sound is to raise the screw pole pieces but this leads to more interference.

Any comments from those who have tried both the Gibson and the Epiphone J160E.

[admin]

Here is my budget answer to the J160E sound. It is a 1967 Gibson J50 that has been resurrected on several occasions but still has a marvellous sound. I will eventually get reissue tuners to suit but the changes over the years have included: new tuners X2, refret, fretboard fill one first four frets, new bridge and saddle, and the installation of a Fishman and now my 1967 Derarmond acoustic microphone or in today's terms a pickup. The pickup has a measured rating in KOhms of about 12K. This really sings through the Vox-AC30 and is very close to the sound of the J160E that I hear on the Beatles' recordings. There may be many reasons why this guitar should not sound like the J160E but it does.

Also, while the hum of the P-90 may also be part of the Beatles' sound, this pickup does not have that hum.

I would be most interested in knowing the model number of this DeArmond pickup should anyone come across it.

Now I need to decide on a type of flats for this instrument. The quest continues.

[jingle_jangle]

Very, very memorable, Peter! That DeArmond makes it a real esoteric and unique piece. I love the design, with the volume control set edge-on like that.

[Scastles]

I think those DeArmonds were just called RH or RHC models, no number. I suppose you either got you another one or weren't too crazy about the one you had, huh Peter?

[chingnchime]

I'll just BET some good ol' oatmeal would keep you strumming and tinkering with the J150E. It builds bodies 7 ways, you know. I know I FEEL FINE whenever i dig into a warm, steamin' bowl, and Mom loves it for the essential vitamins!

[admin]

Your mother was right all along Steve.

You have certainly given us food for thought here.

As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Your comments remind me that eating up these thoughts "builds bodies 7 ways" at least. As I like to think, nothing eaten, nothing digested.

[chingnchime]

Thank you Peter. You're a gentleman and a scholar. Carry on, lads...