Over playing

[bassduke49]

I believe "Something" was done on the Hofner. It sure sounds like it, and I read that somewhere, too. That's one bass line that I learned by heart. One time (a long time ago) I sat in on bass in a college pickup band. The music instructor was handing out sheet music to "Something" and I said I won't need it. He look dumbfounded. My problem is that I can't read music. I learn by ear and repitition. I also try to avoid using open strings, so that if I need to change keys, I just move my pattern up or down the requisite number of frets. Anyway, the band strikes up "Something" in C just as the record. The music instructor is watching and listening to me, and is floored. He said "You played that by ear?" "Yep." "Well, what happens if you had to play that in D?" I proceeded to play "Something" two frets higher than usual, and he just couldn't believe it. Now, he was right about one thing: if someone had a song I didn't know, the rest of the group could play it with the sheet music, and I would be flumoxed.

[jwr2]

I read music ... and a few years ago learned to read tabs ... but I found that I play better when I don't read ... I sometimes use music to start learning a song but I get away from it as fast as possible ...

[ken_swearingen]

I believe waters is a lot better than you think,there is nothing wrong with holding back to make the song,unless your playing progressive rock or reggae or something that requires bass fills and riffs ...overplaying is exactly that overplaying,using restraint is half your job keeping things tight with the drummer is#1.you would probably be astounded at how good waters is having that kind of experience and have been playing for that long you know hes good.

[dean712]

Nate, I get the impression that you are a progressive player developing an active style. If that impression is wrong, my apologies.... Do whatever the heck you want jamming with tunes in your bedroom - push the boundaries, learn and expand yourself. You might be the next Geddy.

When you're playing with other musicians, though, there is very definitely a time to let it fly and a time to be supportive. You are a team. You wouldn't want your guitar player or drummer to solo 100% of the time, right? When you're with the musicians and in that time, it will happen for you.

You've inspired me to put my copy of 'The Wall' in and listen to it here by the computer tonight. Athough I tend to play very different stuff personally, I think Roger's playing on The Wall is brilliant. The album as a whole is a masterpiece. As a matter of fact, when I am creating songs with my own band and we are doing something with drama, like The Wall has in spades, I sometimes wonder how Roger woulda done it. Of course, I am different, but that is the beauty of rock.

Go nuts in your solo rehearsals if you want to, but realize that when you fit in with other musicians, you're a part of a whole sound, and there are times and places for everything. A lot of it comes down to the song you guys are creating.

[johnashfield]

The bass sound on "something" is way too defined IMHO to be the hofner. The hofner always sounds more "woofy" to me, and it wasn't until the 90's that he got it intonated correctly, so I don't think it would have played that bassline in tune.

It screams 'ric' to me.

Of course whatever bass he played it on, it would have sounded nice.

[nattiep]

"Nate, I get the impression that you are a progressive player developing an active style."

I think you got it! "You might be the next Geddy." I think I love you! hehehe

I love Roger's playing. I just think Roger is a ****** and boring player because the first songs I ever learned / taught myself were Floyd tunes. "Money" was the first and "In the Flesh" was the second. About 70 other floyd tunes came after that.

"The Wall" is brillaint, but because it is a concept album he uses the same bass lines over an over. His D octave thing : "Careful With That Exe, Eugene", "Goodbye Cruel World" and a few others that don't come to mind right now. Also because "The Wall" and "The Pros And Cons Of Hitchhiking" were written at the same time he uses the same music in both albums. There is also a bit of "The Final Cut" in "Pros and Cons".

His use of the beginning bass line in "Let There Be More Light" was reused in "More" (I don't know what song though.) and the "improv" spot in "Interstellar Overdrive" was the main bass line in "Let There Be More Light".

I just think Roger is boring and repetitive.

When I make stuff up in parts of songs I try to stick with the style of the player on the Record. Geddy's style I am very familiar with (I've been playing nothing but Rush for over a year.). With Floyd I do Roger stuff and Guy Pratt's stuff. Pratt's overplaying makes Floyd more interesting to me. With Sabbath, Geezers string bending open up a new door for me. I never bothered to try it buy it made everything alot easier that hammering on everything.

I also, like I said before, take moves or solos from a bootleg recording. In '72 Roger played "Breathe" incredibly. After that he got lazy. I tend to stick with good moves and artist had done maybe once or twice, or make up my own.

The first time I played out (at my dad's B day party) I had plenty of praises. My dad's friend (who is arrogant and thinks he is the best) said I was amazing. He played drums and I locked in quite well. Not bad for a first time. I overplayed some of the stuff, "Time" and "Shine On" come to mind. The overplayign wasn't really noticed except by the ones playing but it made it more fun for me.

[dean712]

Nate,

Roger might not have been lazy, he might have been serving the composition the best way possible. Music with drama often includes a lot of pauses and changes.

Develop your style and be freely artistic. I hope to hear it one day. However, remember that unless you can do all of the vocals and accompanying instruments, you are going to need other musicians. Other musicians are artists too, and need to be treated as such. Give 'em space... you would want it yourself. Keep it all in mind, and good luck, brother bassist.

[nattiep]

I do bass and vocals. I sing while I play. Not to hard. I tried to do keys too buy I'm too poor to afford a good synth. I don't think I'm all that good of a singer but some people I know love it.

One person that does impress me with completely opposite stuff is ... Gene Simmons! "Watching You", "Shout It Out Loud"; just amazing he can do that.

Anyone think it would be hard for me to get a band with me being able to do bass and vocals?

[edski]

No, if you can do vocals and bass you should be able to find a band...

Just remember, bands can often become PITA's...

Get a PA and with your skills you'll almost be busy at will...again, it might take some time before you find the right players.

I played for years with a folk guitarist, mainly as a duet. He said he "loved my playing" but often b*tched about me playing "too busy". So sometimes there can be conflicts outside of yourself.

Less is more often works for ANYTHING musical. Stravinsky used to say he felt the most creative when he put the most restictions on the notes he would use in a piece. Now, Igor might not be everyone's cup of tea, but try to listen to the entire Firebird ballet and compare it to some of his later work...100 piece orchestras with lush orchestrations are great, but sometimes an octect of winds playing a total of 4 distinct notes (in an nearly infinite number of rythmic ways) can be a striking effect to.

Damn, some songs have one basic riff only implying a specific chord. Some tunes need an orchestral accompanyment. Just depends...

I think one thing most could agree with is this: It's better to be a busy player and have to learn how to scale it back, rather than the other way around. At least IMHO.

[bobcat]

There are a ton of factors influencing what is the most appropriate bass part to play. Frankly, though, in my opinion, a bassline needs to have several things to be good. If you stick to the root note because it's most appropriate, that still doesn't make it a good bassline. Oftentimes you have to be adventurous where you wouldn't otherwise be, and restrain yourself when you know you want to go crazy. The rule I go by is this: a song usually has one or two focal points, parts of it that are meant to stand out. Sometimes it's the guitar and the vocals (Hendrix), sometimes it's bass and drums (Rush, Who), sometimes it's bass and vocals (Beatles, and to a lesser extent, Rush again). A song can change focus many times, but there will always be one. If you, as a bassist, are overshadowing people when you don't have the focus, then you're overplaying. Like, if the guitar solo is ALL ABOUT the guitarist, don't go crazy. But if it's an all-instrument freakout ("Freewill" by Rush is a good example), then do whatever the hell you want. When you've got the focus, you need to play something that shows people that you've got it, and overplaying is hardly a problem then.

Also, some bands (Rush and the Who come to mind) really have bassists that play lead guitar, and then a rhythm guitarist, which is a very different situation. Lee and Entwistle both played crazy stuff, but that's because they were playing lead (Pete Townshend even said that he was playing rhythm to John's lead). If you're kind of the "lead bassist", then the band needs you to play a semi-melody and add lots of fills and so on. This is the ideal situation if you usually play busily, but, then again, most bands aren't bass-led (usually it's vocals and guitars).

The only thing I would beware of is people saying, "Simpler is better." While overplaying can be obnoxious, an ultra-simple bassline often pulls the guts out of the music. Like Ed said before me, start busy, and you'll be able to scale it back if people start screaming at you. But if you start simple, no one will really know why the music is sounding empty, just that it's lacking something, and you'll have a tough time adding more.

[rictified]

"The only thing I would beware of is people saying, "Simpler is better." While overplaying can be obnoxious, an ultra-simple bassline often pulls the guts out of the music." I think Duck Dunn of Booker T and the MG's would disagree with that statement as I do. Listen to their stuff and everyone plays very simple and there is a lot of air in their music, they play as a whole but any part by itself would be boring. They played on hundreds of hit recordings BTW, they WERE Stax records and the only studio musicians Stax used, they also played on a lot of Atlantic stuff, when they especially wanted a hit record. Those guys knew how to groove and stay out of each others way. It all depends on the music you are playing, if you play a blues march for example, you play fours and that's it, anything else is busy and distracting. Fours are 1,3,5,6, that's it. Music sounds good with air in it, knowing when not to play is at least as important as knowing when to play.

[thx1955]

Green Onions !!!

[nattiep]

"But if it's an all-instrument freakout("Freewill" by Rush is a good example)"

A very fun freakout I might add.

Lead bass and power chords sound fun to me ("The Big Money" comes to mind). Yes I consider myself a lead bassist.

"Comfortably Numb" is all about the guitarist, so no more freaking out for me. Luckily I haven't done a "freak out" on stage yet.

[hieronymous]

I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective - to me the most important thing is that you LISTEN. You can be playing a simple bassline or a busy one, but if you're not listening then to me it doesn't really matter what you're playing. You might be playing what should be a perfectly supportive, "simple" bassline, but if you're in you're own head and unaware of what the other musicians are playing, then it won't be supportive. Or you can be totally jamming out under the guitarist or other soloist, but if you're listening to what they're playing and into it, then it'll probably sound great. Personally, I like to do a little bit of both...

[ozover50]

Hmm..... Booker T and the MGs. Anybody heard the 'McLemore Avenue' album? An interesting take of 'Abbey Road'.