Humbuckers in 4001 or 4003?

carlaz · Post by **carlaz** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:39 am

Has anyone put humbuckers into their 4001 or 4003? I like the sound of bass humbuckers (doesn't the 4004LK have humbuckers? Gotta love that Lemmy growl

) but gather they can be a big bigger than the stock pups and I really don't want to get some pickup that requires digging a hole in my precious 4001!

The usual Bartolini and Seymour Duncan Rick bass replacement pickups that one sees around are humbuckers, aren't they? Has anyone installed them? How easy was it? Alternatively, will Rickenbacker sell me some of their recent humbuckers and, if so, would they easily fit in my 4001?

Cheers,
Carl

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:59 am

Most of Lemmy's recorded stuff was done with a 4001 with high gains wasn't it? Humbuckers are not known for growl although I've never tried a Ric humbucker.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:01 am

Seymour Duncan makes some very fine pickups ... but their Ric replacement pickups do not sound good ... they lack growl ... the barts are better but they are lacking too ... the 4004 pickups can be used on a 4001/4003 bass ...

ok lets start from the beginning ... you have a 4001 bass with stock pickups ... do you want it to sound louder and fuller? or do you want to eliminate hum?

The first thing most 4001 owners do is remove the .0047 bass cut capaciter ... this will give your bass balls and mid punch and more low end ... another mod is to put a toaster in the neck ... this will make it sound smoother ... you could also put in 4003 high gain pickups ... this will make it louder and fuller ... I have tried the 4004 pickups on a 4003 ... it was a little bassy for my taste because I was using the 250k volume pots ... if you put in humbuckers you should also add 500k ohm volume pots ...

the 4004 humbucker has a nice growl because it is wired in series like a p-bass pickup ...

edski · Post by **edski** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:41 am

Personally I think my Laredo has similar "growl" to my 4001. Certainly more output, but I think the bass responses of the two guitars are similar due to the increased mass of the 4001.

With the bridge PU and the tone open, the Laredo has a nice Ricky sound...with the neck PU and the tone pot closed it's a pretty thunderous thud.

And I still have the stock RW's on it...haven't yet pulled the trigger regarding putting on a set of flats...

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:16 am

Bartolini makes or at some time made both single coil and HBs for Ricks.

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:35 am

The Barts in mine are a direct swap....very simple with just some soldering skill required. Completely reversible. They are humbuckers and retain most of the Ric tone (IMO) but add some needed lowend.
I have a 4004 LK and I can say that it is the best sounding Ric I own. I am even considering selling my Barts in my other Rics and installing the Ric humbuckers. There is plenty of growl available from the 4004 pickups and they would be a simple swap into your 4001.

You can see the Barts installed in this pic of my 4003 (plus I just love having a legit excuse to post it again

)....

I'm not sure how much of a difference the 3rd pickup makes in the overall tone but it sounds huge/thick.....

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:55 am

Incidently how do you switch pickups on that thing, doesn't seem like thses is a lot of choices, like in the old days when there were 5 knobs and 8 switches on triple pickup guitars.

edski · Post by **edski** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:58 am

Brian - how are the pickups connected to the selector switch on the LK?

One aspect of the 3 PU design that'll affect the tone is the placement of the PU's. That bridge PU is closer to the bridge than it is on my Laredo, and the neck PU is closer to the neck. Without the middle PU that would lead me to believe that the lows would be deeper and the highs a little more sparkly...

But that 3rd PU has to be involved a t some point...and I suspect that it's tied to the neck PU. If so then the resultant tone is probably similar to Laredo when the selector is up, but you'd get a little more bright with the selector down.

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:06 am

The bridge and middle are wired together and the neck is all by itself. I get my best all-purpose tone with all of them on and the tone control cranked. Typically I find a solid basic tone and leave the knobs and switches alone. If I need slight variations in tone I just alter my technique and for big changes I usually resort to some sort of pedal so a three position pickup selector and volume/tone knobs are fine with me.

....look at the pickup positions on this early production LK. They look like the standard 4004 positions (when the neck p/u was spaced from the neck) with the third squeezed in the middle. I'm glad I got a later version since i think mine looks better with the wider spacing and I would imagine the different positions give a wider blend of tone (just a guess).

....sorry for wandering from topic....no hijack intended

.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:29 am

the cheyenne 1 is a really nice bass ... the thinner body and oil finish give a nice warm sound ... lots of mids and a nice growl ...

the 4004L has more bass and treble and less mids because of the varnish finish ... I rewired mine with 2 1000k ohm volume pots it has a Chris Squire bite to it ...

The 4004 pickups are 15k ohms humbuckers wired in series ... if you just plug them straight into a 4001/4003 they are muddy ... the 250k ohm volume pots and the increased body mass make it muddy ... it could be interesting with the bass cut capaciter installed ... or with 500k ohm pots or 1000k ohm pots ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:30 am

And Bob you are right ... most humbuckers don't growl because they are wired parallel ...

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:41 am

....I stand corrected on the "simple drop in then....

.

carlaz · Post by **carlaz** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:21 am

Jeff Rath wrote:
ok lets start from the beginning ... you have a 4001 bass with stock pickups ... do you want it to sound louder and fuller?

My 4001 is (at least) second hand, but doesn't have its stock pickups. Tell the truth, there's what looks like a humbucker in the bridge and I think it may be a Bart -- but whatever it is, it's been there since before I got it (and that was more than 10 years ago) and I wasn't sure whether the current Bart or SD was the same size. There's also what I think is a *********** Telecaster pickup (!) in the neck.

The first thing most 4001 owners do is remove the .0047 bass cut capaciter ...

Yup, there's actually a bypass switch in mine, activated by pulling out on one of the knobs (in the unlikely event that I'd want to cut the capacitor back in for some reason).

you could also put in 4003 high gain pickups ... this will make it louder and fuller ... I have tried the 4004 pickups on a 4003 ... it was a little bassy for my taste because I was using the 250k volume pots ... if you put in humbuckers you should also add 500k ohm volume pots ...

Those are interesting ideas. Can the 4003 (or 4004LK

) pickups be bought separately? I scrounged around on Rick's site and googled around a bit, but haven't found a source for original Rick pickups sold on their own.

Mind you, the hoary old replacement bridge pickup that's in there doesn't sound bad, especially with the capacitor cut-out switch, but I'm looking to breath some new life and fresh growl into my baby. Sounds like the Seymour Duncans aren't a road worth going down, but it would be interesting to explore other options.

Cheers,
Carl

incubus2432 · Post by **incubus2432** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:39 am

Try www.Ricpage.com ....Mike parks is a great guy to deal with. Just look under the "parts/accessories" section.

edski · Post by **edski** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:57 am

So the LK is wired opposite of what I thought...the neck is by itself. Interesting. Also interesting that the PU placement has changed over time with them.