Ampeg Ba210sp and Eden Wt-300 with 210T

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:24 am

I have brought this up in a couple of threads but not much input(some, and thank you) but I have this dilemma. I want the Ampeg(cuz you havta(yes I meant to spell it that way) w/a Ric).

Maybe I should trade the Ba 210 and the Wt-300 for an Ampeg head or combo that has external out, keep the 210T and then I would have 4x10 overall.

I am really afraid of going back to 12's or 15's due to the size of our sanctuary(It's also a metal building with low ceilings). Every speaker over 10 inches on the bass sounds muddy! The guitars and the electric piano have 15's but they don't venture down as low so.......

So, I know some of you are saying, sheesh, I wish I had that problem, but, hey, I wish you had the problem and not me!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:18 am

Get a head and a 4x10 cab used, will be less than what you can get for both of those amps. Amps with 2 ohm output are expensive. The higher end Ampegs all can go down to 2 ohms. I believe all the SVT series, SS and tube can but they aren't cheap.
Howabout a 70's V4-B with a 4x10 cab, that would be great sounding and be plenty enough for a church and tube amps put out all their power at every impedance they are designed for (V4-B: 8,4, and 2 ohms) unlike SS amps which don't. So you could run different combinations of cabs with it.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:33 am

JJ's has an Ampeg all tube preamp, that they say I should get. Keep the Eden Traveller amp, sell the B210sp and get another 210 cab to go with the 210T. THat way he claims I will get the "sound" without having to sell the Eden.

What do you think?

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:52 am

You don't "Havta" play thru an Ampeg, GK works just fine for me!

If you like the way it sounds, crank it! (Mine gets cranked thru (2) 4x10 GK cabs, by the way).

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:23 am

I had a 400RB a while back. In fact, that is what I sold when I got the Eden for doing the website. Not bad but nothing special to me.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:06 pm

An Ampeg preamp through an Eden is not going to sound like an ampeg, sell both a get an SVT or a V4-B, you'll never regret it, might as well splurge now. They are just trying to sell you something, anyhting, please??!!. An Eden and an Ampeg are from different worlds.
If you want "THE SOUND" get a 70's ampeg tube head, either SVT or V4-B and get a 4x12 cab Ampeg. 70's V4-B's are fairly cheap, $300-400.00 usually and they last forever as do SVT heads. Actually I like GK heads at least the small ones, their tone controls are similar to Ampegs, they don't have the nice tube sound though but do sound good considering they have those cold little things inside them called... umm.. transisters? Way too many knobs on that monstrosity for me, haha! I would freeze up and start babbling. Looks like you would need a 4 credit course just to run it.

jps · Post by **jps** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:15 pm

Ha ha ! Too many knobs.

Try this, Bob!

dswp · Post by **dswp** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:24 pm

Bob is right; Gota go Ampeg

I hate to say it but GC has some great close out sales. I purchased 2 Ampeg SVT410HFL and a Pro 3 Head for well under $2K. Compared to my old SWR Rig, it is a tidal wave of big wet clear bass.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:36 pm

I don't need all that power and I can't have a huge stack at church. They had a 350 head that is SS. MY Eden is barely idling as it is!!!!! I do have the ampeg ba210 but can't hook external up. I either want to add a 12 or a 210 box to the 210T I have.

I believe the guy when he says the tube preamp is all you need because you can't really tell the difference between high quality solid state amps set flat, no effects, and put thru the same bottom. Now, before you get all huffy, remember all the caveats. They need to be set to flat. As an example,in Stereo rcvrs Yamaha has a warm sound that makes it sound different than all of the other rcvrs on the floor. This is a special sound shaping circuit added by Yamaha to get the "warm" sound. Take that out and it sounds like all the others.

This is neither an endorsement of or critique of Yamaha's sound, just an example.

So, given that, the all tube preamp may just be the ticket. However, I would like to hear more than a few opinions!

bob_atherton · Post by **bob_atherton** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:36 pm

Hi Charly,

FWIW I use an Ashdown 500 watt head amp with either one, on it’s end, or two Ashdown 2x10 ABM cabs. I’ve spent years with 15’s and 12’s but find the Ashdowns to be just perfect.

The ABM cabs are not cheap, and I’m not suggesting that you should switch to them, it’s just that I’m fairly sure that any very good quality 2x10 cab will deliver.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:03 pm

That is not true Charlie, you get the tube sound from the whole thing not just the preamp. I've tried it both ways and actually prefer a SS preamp with a tube power amp than the other way around but a total SS or total tube amp is even better. There are a lot of amps with tube preamps in them, in fact a lot of Ampegs do that and all they do is make them sound a little more mellow, you lose the edge. If you want a tube sound you need power tubes. A good tube amp works with you, becomes part of your instrument. Don't believe salespeople they'll tell you anything to make the sale. I had one of those Yamaha receivers years ago, they've been making them for years now.
You can get a 70's 100 watt V4-B and a 4x10 cab for under a grand and they sound great and won't scare the preacher at your church, haha!
Jeffrey I've actually used Walter Woods amps a few times and they sound pretty good especially considering they weigh about 5 lbs. I meant all the stuff on Steve's rack up there.

jps · Post by **jps** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:22 pm

The newer WW amps like the one I have sounds much better than earlier versions. I had a '78 and an '82 , they both sounded quite different than this current one, I like the tone of this one as it is very much tube like in the warmth and upper mid/treble region but it does not have the growl/distortion that can be gotten from an all tube amp like the one you prefer, the Mesa /Boogie 400+. I got that right, didn't I?

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:11 pm

Ehh...most of the stuff in that rack is for show, anyway, a compressor (which I need!) a tuner / power supply / rack light and a Aphex for when I am playing those old Rics with "not enough bottom end"

Its nice when I get to the gig and open the rack and everything is wired, set, and ready to plug in and go.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:26 pm

I don't know how old the one I've used is, I think it was about 400 or 450 watts, sounded good to me, I didn't get a chance really to fool with it much though, it was set flat. I know you've had SVT's (I mean Mesas haha!) and they can sound very clean and punchy if you want them too, they are an excellent funk amp, especially through 15"s.
Steve, Your rack would scare the hell out of me if I walked up on stage and saw that instead of my trusty old SVT's although I could find my way around the GK. Entwistle had a rack about 3 feet high crammed with stuff when I saw him, including 4 power heads.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:31 pm

Well, the issue is, there are a lot of good deals on the Ampeg SS stuff but the tube stuff is hard to find and exepensive. The all tube preamp is $399. Found a B2R for $220. Found a b5R for $500. Well, off to the blues jam. I'll check in later.