Playing and Setup - 325v63

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:10 pm

My 325v63 is my first short-scale guitar. I don't have particularly small hands and I'm not a great player. These could be important considerations in my problems. ha ha I have checked truss rod and bridge setup specs ... all seem OK. I have new Ric 12s, short-scale strings.

I have bigtime trouble not buzzing especially on 5th and 6th strings. Perhaps if I set the bridge height on bass end to around 8/64 it would help. Now ... Mark et al. has probably seen about every kind of setup players could concoct. Am I missing something? Could I do something else in my setup to help this issue? Or am I down to either playing with a very high setup or trading in this 325 on a full scale? The buzz is a very metallic sound. Whoa!

Oh yeah ... I have the Accent vibrato.

Thanks!

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:44 am

With a shorter scale guitar , the strings need to be a heavier gauge to compensate for that short length.

Here is a case in point ;To bend a note a full step on a Strat/Tele (25.5" scale ) using .009 to.042 string will have about the same feel as playing a Les Paul (24.75"scale )if you use a set of .010 to .046 strings.

One step further, A Gretsch Duo-Jet (24.5"scale) needs .011 to .048 strings .

A Fender Jaguar (24"scale), will feel (bending-wise) like that Strat/Tele if you use .011 to .050 ,or .012 to.052 strings.

Yes all of these guitars have bigger and bigger strings , and your fingers will at first argue that ..."These strings are too big! I can't play these!"
(this is where I think of a G.Harrison line ..."It's only me -it's not my mind,that is confusing things."

Well 'I want to tell you ', you need to consider big strings .
.012 to .052 -.054 is a great place to start .
The set up is that same as any guitar .

Tune to the pitch you will play at , adjust the rod(s) to minimum relief , and then set the bridge height.
If all is well , and the strings are new ...intonate and play.

BUZZING !!!!! what a nasty thing that is !

I have a question for you .

Does it just buzz sitting around unplugged playing ?

Does it buzz when you jump around ala Pete Townshend ?
Or does it Buzz/rattle when you are plugged in ?

Or when you are plugged into an amp , and you have your hands OFF the strings , does it buzz then? what about with your hands on the strings?

Give me that answer , then we can proceed.

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 7:14 am

Hi, Mark, and thanks for such a quick, as usual, response!

I have the Rickenbacker 95106 strings on ... brand new ... all tuned up - it stays in tune very well, by the way ... even with the Accent Vibrato. Strings strung conventionally over the vibrato "tailpiece". Strings seem well-fitted in place in the vibrato slots.

The buzzing is when I play - not an electronic buzz but, I gather, fret buzz ... like the strings are hitting the next fret up the fretboard, although I currently have bridge height set to around 5/64 on bass and 3/64 on treble. I believe that's spec. I DO tend to use higher-than-spec setups ... guess I'm a lousy player or a rough one ... but with this short-scale ... appears I'll have to go HIGH INDEED! Or maybe I'm just not a candidate for a short-scale. To give you an idea ... my Epiphone Sheraton and I get along quite well with this regard using spec setup all way around. Actually I don't play heavy .... don't hit the strings hard at all ... no Townshend windmills. :>)

I don't notice any obvious-to-me problem with the frets ... in other words ... I don't detect any high frets when checking them going up the fretboard.

Thanks again for your help!!

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 7:35 am

So are you plugged in or not ?

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 8:17 am

Plugged or unplugged .... buzz buzz buzz buzz ...
coming right off of the bridge area ...

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 9:54 am

Jim, just to say you checked other possible origins for "buzz", get out the allen wrench for the 4 corner height screws and gently check if any of them may be slightly loose.I've seen from past experience this can be an overlooked area.
Give this a try as well as Marks' other tips....

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 1:51 pm

Yeah ... I checked those screws ... all is well ... I'm just experimenting now with adjusting bridge height ... will see what happens. I just ordered a 360, Desert Gold with black-trim option ... might be selling this little Lennon model ... with considerable pain involved. ha

Thanks for your response!

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:20 pm

I'm wondering if I may have "issues" in the saddle department. When I damp just behind the bridge some of this fret buzz goes away. Of course I would expect SOME kind of tonal difference when damping this way. And ... I get some string "tweaking" sounds when I bend a little ... maybe a smidgeon of oil carefully placed in the saddle grooves? It could all fall on the shoulders of this Accent vibrato too, I guess.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 7:07 pm

Time to loosen the strings and check for wobble saddle syndrome .

Take the bridge completely off the guitar , then with your fingertips , see if any of the saddles wobble ...if they do , that is the buzz.
It is fixable.

If not , then the angle of the slots is suspect .If they are even with the plane of the strings (parallel ) without any angle , the string will buzz in the slot.

Check those out .

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 7:16 pm

OK, Mark ... the bridge is off ... I detect no wobble whatsoever ... the saddles don't budge at all in any direction ... now ... if you don't mind ... maybe you could explain the slot angle again ... I think you are talking about the actual slot cut into the saddle top, right? The angle of that cut (slot)? I think so. How should these slot cuts look to me now that I have the bridge off?

Thanks oodles!

gbogart · Post by **gbogart** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 9:02 pm

Just my two cents' worth, as an old buzz-hunter... You mention:

"- not an electronic buzz but, I gather, fret buzz ... like the strings are hitting the next fret up the fretboard -"

I know Mark mentioned it earlier, but have you thoroughly checked your neck relief? "Strings hitting the next fret" is often the result of a too-flat or back-bowed neck (i.e: not enough relief).

I can tell you from my own experience that once I got my 325v59 properly set up, with a set of 12's, it plays like a dream... with comfortably low action, and no undue buzzing.

Good luck!

Gene

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 9:18 pm

Thanks for mentioning it, Gene. I had better check the neck again ... I'm learning a lot through this ... thanks to you guys!

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:04 am

I just sent yoy an email with a photo to help you understand this checking of the truss rods.

The angle of the saddle notches needs to be the same or more than the angle of the strings from the bridge to the tailpiece.
If the notches are parallel with the strings over the fretboard , this gives you SITAR tone .
If they are just poorly cut , then that is suspect.

Glad you don't have saddle wobble ...that is common on pre 1985 guitars .The tooling was upgraded at that time .What a blessed difference !

What gauge of string is on the guitar ?

Are the strings wound down to the headstock or are they strung like a crazed Boy Scout installed them ?
Or are they wound UP away from the headstock ?

You need maximum angle at the nut also .

The nut is NOT the problem here ...sounds like the Rods so far.

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:44 pm

Thanks for the photo and email, Mark! I'll post this here for everyone's benefit.

I loosened strings, of course, took bridge off ... saddles were tight but saddles for strings numbers 5 and 6 I'm not convinced were cut at correct angle. Anyway ... I cleaned a LITTLE bit in the saddle slots ... applied a SMALL amount of 3-in-1 ... put bridge back on and tuned her up.

I checked the relief again and all was fine! I had a monstrous vibration/buzzing when I first got it all back together ... it was the the string end not fitting right in the vibrato slots so I sorted that out.

Now ... I still get buzzing/vibrating sound, though not as much before I reseated the string ends, for strings 5 and 6.

I really think the saddle cut might be the culprit here.

Perhaps I could do some filing on these saddle slots for strings 5 and 6? I gather I would file in order to slant the cut DOWN toward the tailpiece.

Thanks again!

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:32 pm

I wonder how much damage an idiot like myself can do filing their own saddles ... anyway ... I think I finally finished at least no worse than I began. Probably just a matter of getting all the ducks in a row ... everything just right.

Mark's suggestion of using a feeler gauge wrapped in fine sandpaper seemed to work. I'm sure his suggestion is ace ... not so sure about my skills.

Thanks to all!