Jimmy Smith

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:24 am

The fellow(John Marx) who plays and sings lead at Cozy's on Monday nights told me last night that he has been telling bass players for forty years to study Jimmy Smith's(piano guy) left hand. He says he played the tastiest simplest stuff but it's what bass should be. I can't vouch for that but I will be listening to some Jimmy Smith to see if I "hear" the same stuff.

As an aside, a young black fellow who has been coming to play bass was being interviewed outside for a local rag last night and as I was walking by, I heard him tell them, "this is my education"(coming to blues jam night)! Cool!!!

Unfortunately, I left early due to the arrival of two hookers, one of which had a huge "rack". She started dancing like a stripper in front of the stage and was very distracting to us "students". I'll just try again next week. Since there is no cover charge, anyone can walk in........

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:40 am

Er...well, playing for dancing hookers with huge "racks" would seem to me to be an essential component in a blues education...unless one subscribes to the idea of studying any music without paying attention to the culture within which it evolved...

I'm hip that stuff like that can be challenging to play around, but consider it a chance to step up...I used to play in front of 500 drunken, dancing, screaming, fighting, vomiting sailors and construction workers...I wouldn't trade for anything what I learned during that phase of my education.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:52 am

For you it's distracting, for me, it's Saturday night!

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:54 am

Well, at the risk of alienating some on this thread,I am an elder in a PCA church and my reason for "studying blues" is, it is my dream to promote the genre called Gospel Blues. I have a 501(c3) corp and a website to start but not quite off the ground yet, even though it's been around over a year! In order to be an "expert" in that, I need to sudy the secular blues to move ahead.

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:24 am

Blues and Gospel are very closley linked. In some circles it's even said Blues was / is an extension of early Gospel music.

Check out the blues dot org site, good launch point, as well as PBS who have a bunch of historical information on the formation of both early blues and gospel music

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:35 am

No problem there, Charlie...I agree with what Jim said. But if played correctly, it can have that effect on people...hopefully

I just said that because I have to block those things out to an extent because it seems to happen every Saturday we are playing, and, in a way, if we don't have people dancing, we aren't doing our job.

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:56 am

Steve has a very valid point, we've a lot of older blues music in our set lists, but for a weekend night crowd in a bar, the original "Crossroads", is going to get you shouted at by the manager for "losing " the crowd. Have to keep on "shufflin" !!!

Now a sit down Blues audience, whole different animal and much more open to a far wider range of Blues.

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:40 am

Charly...dude! I hope I didn't alienate you! (I think it was your use of the word "Rack" that caused me to make an unfair assumption concerning your background...you might want to reserve that term for discussions of P.A. gear to avoid confusion, elder)...

I think it would be a sadder world without Mehalia Jackson or Bessie Smith, regardless of the fact that they represent opposite sides of the coin. That's not to say that I think it'll be easy to mash Gospel and Blues together into a 'genre' without leaving out much of what's powerful in one or the other. If we're saying that the two are linked, are we saying 'God' and 'The Devil' (how come 'he' get's a definite article, but 'He' doesn't?) are likewise 'linked'?
Hot Dog, that's some sophisticated Cosmology that I could be down with!

This brings to mind the problematic subject of 'Christian Death Metal'...

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:47 am

Well, what got me started, was reading all of the history books saying Thomas Dosrey started Gospel Blues. What really happened was Dorsey was a blues man who returned to the church after his wife and child died(during birth if I remember right). well, he put Gospel lyrics to the blues tunes he played in the bars. That's where the term "Devil's" music originated. The people heard the same music in church as at the bar so Dorsey was a "bad" man for a while.

While he is the father of reocorded Gospel Blues, I want to trace the blues out of the field and into the church where it really all began years before Dorsey was even born!

As a PS, I was also a sailor and a druggie for a while so I have some rough "edges"! {:^)

wayang · Post by **wayang** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:58 am

Good for you, Charly...I had a feeling that 'Rack' comment had some basis in reality.

To trace Blues or even Gospel back to the roots might lead out the back door of the church, past a lot of agrarian fields and down to the docks...and thence to Mother Africa...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:32 am

"For you it's distracting, for me, it's Saturday night!"

Amen to that brother!! haha!

(Sorry Charly, couldn't resist)

Jimmy Smith was a jazz organist and a very good one, he's like the father of the B-3 players.

I play in some genteel places and also for Hell's angels and anyone in between, it's my job and I judge no one. Although I would rather walk the middle ground if I had my way.

I thought Ray Charles first blended gospel and blues? I've heard some Tommy Dorsey and it don't sound like either blues or gospel to me. Also isn't it generally accepted that the blues started in the cotton fields back in the 1800's?

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:46 am

Yes, we're talking about lyrics as well as form. My contention is, the first blues were Gospel, rather than the sexual tone that it had during the earliest recordings by Bessie Smith etc.
It just bothers me that according to most books, popular music styles started when we started recording them. To me, that is absurd on its face!

Ray Charles blended those and made secular hits. Thomas Dorsey did it the other way around in the 30's

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:10 am

Blues was sung in the cotton fields during the early 1800's way before Bessie smith. Blues and Gospel are two different forms of music, still are today, they got blended by Ray Charles and it's called soul music now.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:26 am

You got it Bob. It came out of the cotton fields into the church Way before recordings wereinvented. But try finding much out about it. The secular blues history books give it short shrift, almost to the point of denying any real connection! I must have close to a dozen books and it's all the same.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:46 am

Yes, I agree, the same with jazz, it's almost like it didn't start until the white people started playing it, then it became legitimate.
One thing I didn't know what that gospel came from blues, makes sense though.