Comparison of 4003, 4004Cii and 4004 i Laredo

heinpete · Post by **heinpete** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:11 am

Hi everybody!
Recently received my 2004 TR 4004Cii from Mark Henson. Surprises, surprises!!! This is much different to my '95 4004Li. Here are first the neck measures:

4.1cm width at nut
13.0 cm circ at nut
5.4cm 12th width
13.6cm 12th circ
5.8cm 20th width

Except the nut circ it is like my '98 4003 dimensions:

4.1cm width at nut
12.4cm circ at nut
5.4cm 12th width
13.6cm 12th circ
5.8cm 20th width

These are the dimensions of my ´95 4004Li:
4.4cm width at nut
12.7cm circ at nut
5.9cm 12th width
14.3cm 12th circ
6.4cm 20th width

But there are much more differences: The 4004Cii weights 2lbs less than the 4004Li (7 instead of 9), dúe to the walnut/maple composite body of the 4004Cii. My 4004Li is a full maple construct, despite the Rick specs indicating "Hardwood", whatever that may be. Even the fingerboard of the old 4004L was maple.
What is also very different is the body shaping. The 4004Cii has a slightly smoothened body, but the 4004Li has a very strongly shaped body at the "waist" of the body and the left lower area where the right arm would reside when finger playing. Also the back of the 4004Li is heavily shaped at the middle of the body, whereas the 4004Cii is not at all. So the 4004Li aligns much better to your body when playing, but...if there just wasn't the higher weight of it.
For me a very striking difference is that the PU position of the 4004Cii is much better for funky play (slapping and pulling) because of the gap between end of neck and neck PU, whereas the 4004Li has it directly joined to eachother. However if it comes to the sound, then the 4004Li is the more crispy and funky sounding bass although both models have a glossy laquered fingerboard (the Cii of Bubinga and the Li of Maple). The 4004Cii frequency range is more focused on the middle range, here that is where the maple-walnut-maple composite of the body comes into action. But this an issue which can be modified by different strings. The bass frequency of both models is equally strong. Taking this all in account the 4004Cii with the now changed hardware and the glossy finished Bubinga fingerboard is the keeper! Anybody interested in a full maple FG '95 4004Laredo with gold hardware in mint condition?

edski · Post by **edski** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:50 am

It looks to me like the 4004 has undergone various tweaks, and almost each year has something unique. Interesting that the nut has shrunk over the years...but the maple neck always looked pretty interesting.

I figured that the Laredo would be the slightly brighter of the two models now, which is why I got that instead of a Cheyenne. It's interesting that you detect that with your 95 L compared to the 2004 Cii...with the PU placement further away from the bridge on the 95 L I'd expect a little deeper tone...but the maple neck probably adds some brightness...

But I'd say that this seems to be evidence of John Hall's contention that the wood/construction has the most impact on the sound of any individual bass.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:31 am

I have a 1993 4004L and a 1998 4004CI ...

The Cheyenne model is walnut and oil finished ... it is the lightest Ric I own ... also the wood and the oil finish make for a warm mid sounding bass ... and it is very pretty ... I wired it volume, volume, tone, with 500k ohm pots ... it is a growlly bass ...

The Laredo model is all maple and finished with high gloss conversion varnish ... I rewired it volume, volume, tone, with 1000k ohm volume pots and a 500k ohm tone pot ... it has more lows and more treble bite ... it gets a real Chris Squire bite ...

I use the original pickups in both basses ... on the Laredo I experimented with many pickup scenarios and wiring schemes before arriving on the one in use now ... the Cheyenne I only tried one rewiring and I liked it ...

Stock from the factory I was unhappy with the toggle, volume tone setup ... this type of setup seems to work better for guitars than basses ...

also I really like the white trc on the black Laredo ...

muppetprince · Post by **muppetprince** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:24 am

Jeff, have you tried a toaster in the neck position and hi gain at the bridge on the Laredo?

The reason I ask is I like the 4004 body/neck but wonder if it is possible to get a 4001/4003/McCartneyesque sound out one if modified?

Heinpete, have you had any offers on that FG yet?

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:27 am

think the 'other' Jeff has a toaster in his 4004

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:37 am

Barry ... by the way I love that deep voice of yours when you sing ... opps different Barry White ... yes I tried many pickups ... I put the toaster and high gain combo in there ... but with the 500k pots and maple neck it was harsh sounding ... I tried wiring a single coil / series / parallel 3 way toggle switch with the ric humbuckers ... that was interesting but not quite right ... Sergio made me a fat overwound 5 pole single coil pickup that I tried with a toaster and a ric humbucker and 250k pots ... that sounded pretty good but the pickup looked like a Gibson p-90 ... it just didn't look right on a 4004 ... I also tried a copy of a toaster that has a single rail and is wound to 8.5k ohms ... finally I found the right sound for me and am 4004L5 was 2 1000k ohm volume pots and a 500k ohm tone pot and 2 ric humbuckers ... it has mid growl, treble bite, and plenty of bottom ... and there is no hum ... and it looks good too ...

here is a wiring diagram ...

is somebody selling a fireglo 4004?

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:54 am

Jeff, I'm digging that 4004L five string with the white trc.

thx1955 · Post by **thx1955** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:10 am

Fireglo ... where ???
I'm interested !!!

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:21 am

Ken ... I am starting to use that bass for gigging and recording ...

go here http://www.3dentourage.com/425/jeffbass.htm and listen to the sound byte "awhile" it was recorded with a direct send from the pa to a 4 track recorder ... I was using the 4004L5 with the 1000k pots ... it gets a good piano ring and some cool overtones ...

bottom4 · Post by **bottom4** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:14 pm

Peter, your new Cii used ti be mine!

Congrats and enjoy!

Now I have this one...

edski · Post by **edski** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:10 pm

is somebody selling a fireglo 4004?

Not me!

THought about selling my 4001 when I got the FG Laredo, but the wife said "no way". Who am I to argue with her logic?

johnhall · Post by **johnhall** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:09 pm

What the heck is a 4004Li?

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:28 pm

Peter probably meant the first version of the 4004L ... with the maple fretboard ...

rickfan60 · Post by **rickfan60** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:33 pm

That is what I thought he meant.

ken_swearingen · Post by **ken_swearingen** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:50 pm

Its the Japanese version lian li model[or Taiwanese]Jeff, its got a lot of bottom end sounds good sorta like an old p-bass.couldn't crank it up everyones asleep[and I'm hard of hearing]cool sound from what i could hear.