New to Ricks - help me with my '03 4003

mwpmorris · Post by **mwpmorris** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:32 am

Hi,

I'm a proud owner of a midnite blue 4003, I bought it last year but I'm having some trouble in taming the beast!

Now I'm not the world's best bass player, but I find that distinctive Rick 'twang' popping out of my amp when I try to play louder (harder). Now that's all well and good if I'm playing a 'Yes' song, but the band I play in kind of needs a subtler sound. I know the Rick is up to it but I'm not sure how to get the best out of it.

I've tried altering the two pickup heights, and I now play using both pickups at once. The treble pickup covers most of the lower strings, as I think it has more 'punch' the bass pickup covers the higher strings to avoid the trebly 'twang'.

I'm still not 100% happy with the sound though. I'm considering moving onto flat-wound strings. My guitar tech said the tension of flat-wounds would end up warping the neck, although I don't think he deals with a lot of basses.

So if anyone has any reccomendations for improving my sound, and with the flat-wound strings issue then please help!

Thanks a lot.

edski · Post by **edski** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:44 am

No warp issues to worry about with a newer 4003. The necks are solid. Flats would tame the twang. I have some very high tension strings (Fender 9050 ML) on my 75 4001 - with no neck isues. Well, maybe a bit too much relief, but it's stable.

Where are your tone pots? I usually start out with my tones at about 1/2 open and go from there. Amp settings also play a role. Some of us advocate keeping the bass and treble flat, a slight boost in the high and low mids, and a slight cut in the mids. If you are using a scoop EQ (cut the mids, boost the lows and highs) you'll get lost in the mix and generally get only the highs cutting through.

highway_star · Post by **highway_star** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:11 am

Strings can really do a lot to change the sound of a 4003. I use D'Addario Half-Rounds on mine. They're not as bright as rounds, but brighter than flats. D'Addario Chromes and Rotosound flats are two brighter-sounding types of flatwounds that will retain some Ric punch. Try them and adjust your EQ to taste as Ed recommended.

A more drastic idea is to replace your hi-gain neck pickup with a toaster. They are a bit mellower and rounder-sounding.

mwpmorris · Post by **mwpmorris** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:31 am

I tend to keep the 4003's tone controls fully 'open'. I suppose turning the tone all the way down would dull the twang..... I have tried it and I don't like the way it removes all character and muddies up the sound.

It should be mentioned that I'm using a pretty lousy H&K solid state combo amp, with which I find it difficult to get decent EQ settings. I spent all my money on the bass so now I'm trying to save up for an Ashdown ABM 500 Evo 2.

I'll definately look into flat wounds in the meantime though, thanks.

highway_star · Post by **highway_star** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:59 am

If you're in the amplifier market, Ampeg may be another one for you to consider. They seem to match up well with Rickenbackers. I use an SVT-3 Pro head with 2 Aguilar GS112 cabinets. I've used an Ampeg SVT410HLF cabinet in the past with good sonic results, but I have a hard time lugging a 110 lb. cabinet around.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:32 am

Welcome Matthew ... The 4003 is a wonderful bass ... it can handle any string out there ... if you are playing Yes then flats won't give you the Chris Squire sound ... I personally hate flatwound strings ... you can get a smooth mellow sound out of rounds plus you can get the edgy sound as well ...

perhaps you should focus on your amp settings first ... set your amp up to get a good full smooth sound with all your dials on the bass turned to 10 ... then when you want more bite turn the neck volume back to 8-5 range ... the 4003 is a very versatile bass ... it can be warm and woody or grinding an edgy ... and a lot of it is your attack on the strings ...

edski · Post by **edski** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:07 am

flats won't give you the Chris Squire sound

While in general I'd agree with that, there have been times, with flats, that my 4001 has got that "grind". Obviously not as in-your-face as the bass sounds on those early Yes recordings, but close.

Especially after years of trying to get that sound. Eventually I decided I wanted to sound like myself rather than a famous player.

Amps are pretty important in this...I'm pretty sure that night last December when the "sound found me" the main contributor to that sound was the clipping in my POS Behringer head. When I dug in hard, especially for a low G or F, I got ample growl from my tone.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:17 am

A lot of us here use Pyramid flats which are expensive and round sounding, Others use Chrome flats which are more trebly sounding, there are many different types of flats, some very deep, others like Roto flats are very trebly. Also try a tube amp and get a new guitar tech. If you're aiming for Squires sound it is a no compromise sound, you'll need Rotos RS66 which are great for that grindy kind of sound for about a month anyway but not very good for much else. Rics sound and function great with flats.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:44 am

oh no ... another thread degenerates into a useless discussion of flats versus rounds ...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:55 am

No he asked about them and we are answering him, we know you hate them, believe me we know. Face it Jeff, flatwounds are becoming popular again.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:00 am

ya right ... go into any music store and see if you can even find one bass on the wall with flats ... flatwound strings are like fretless basses they will NEVER become mainstream ...

mwpmorris · Post by **mwpmorris** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:10 am

Thanks for the advice guys.

What would you say were the deepest flats? Pyramids? I'll have a look for some.

Like I was saying, the pronounced 'grind' of Squire's is what I'm trying to tame/lessen in my bass. I think using rounds and messing with EQ etc just ends up dulling the character of the 4003. I think using flats would mellow the sound out enough while still keeping that 'Rick' sound.......

edski · Post by **edski** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:13 am

oh no ... another thread degenerates into a useless discussion of flats versus rounds

What's degenerating, Jeff? The OP asked about sound/tone, several are giving their opinions. Yes, you absolutely abhor flats, that's your right. Some of us find them quite adequate. And just because you can't find a bass on the wall of some garbage music superstore doesn't mean that a fair portion of folks will use that as a reason to diss flatwounds. All it means is the manufacturers are just set in their ways. Could just be a reflection of the average consumer not knowing his/her options...

If Bob is right, and the popularity of flats is on the increase, soon they'll be easier to find at the **** music stores. But for now I'll look at it like I look at the percieved unpopularity of 4004's: too bad for all you other folks, I use a cranking bass that few have!

And when my 4001 thunders like a midwest super-cell, AND produces a distinct Rick growl, I feel like I have the best of two worlds. A low end better than most Fenders, and a high end growl other basses can't easily touch.

But to each their own.

Let's not denigrate others for their choice in strings...

Hell, I've heard few say they really like the Fender strings I like. So I'll call the 9050 ML's I like so much "bridge cables" in jest, and get on with it.

mwpmorris · Post by **mwpmorris** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:15 am

Also.......... is the 4003 a 3/4 scale bass?

This is another thing that the guitar tech told me. As a result it left me a bit confused about what strings to buy.

Sorry about the stupid questions by the way!!

highway_star · Post by **highway_star** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:22 am

Rickenbacker uses a 33 1/4" scale as opposed to a the more common 34" scale found on Fenders and most other long-scale basses. Any regular long-scale bass string will work fine.

Matt, can I suggest you get another tech? After feeding you two falsehoods (3/4 scale and necks not taking flats), it appears that your tech knows nothing about Rickenbackers. I shudder to think that he could butcher the truss rod adjustment since Rics use a twin truss rod instead of a single rod like most other brands.