Looks vs. Value

rob · Post by **rob** » Mon May 13, 2002 10:54 am

I just wanted to share my thoughts on the value of an instrument, and what it looks like. Vintage Fenders, for example, could have a very ******, worn out paint job, and people would PAY THOUSANDS for this instrument. They would pay this much because of the originality of the instrument. This is o.k., but why so much? I've never seen a Ric with a worn paint job that costs an arm and a leg.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Mon May 13, 2002 12:00 pm

Reason...........

1- What guitar heros are using this guitar ?

2- what players that have remained famous for their fingerings , used these guitars ?

The Gruhn based vintage market is aimed at those that perceive the guitars used by the likes of guitar slingers such as ;

Jeff Beck
Eric Clapton
Jimmy Page
Jimi Hendrix
Pete Townsend
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Billy Gibbons
Eric Johnson
Peter Green
Mick Taylor
Stephen Stills
Tony Rice
Neil Young
Mike Bloomfield

There are others , but for the most part ... these guys played a handful of guitars and made guitar based records that had a 'sound ' and that is the sound shook the guitar populace.
Yes ,the Beatles are the kings of record sales , but due to most of the guys on this list ...THAT tone they made was king.NOT the sound of 'Baby's in Black'. That is my version of WHY the Beatles changed types of guitars.At least part of the reason.

This does not in any way shape or form make that guitar tone out to be 'stink-O' , it just did NOT have the guts that players were going for.It is not the agressive tone of the last 30 years.

If you can find one player ... that is a master of the fretboard, that blazed one solo on a Rick and stood everyones ears on end.THEN you would see Rick sales and value sky rocket.

Do I agree with the prices of old Fenders and Gibson and some Martins?

NO

I do respect these other brands , but this ...'Find one that is cooler' and find 'another one' mentality is only fed by those that buy into it .Apparently , due to several articles in Baron's and the Wall Street Journal ...guitars are worth looking into to some degree.

I will paraphrase Ry Cooder ......"If what was happening to the guitar industry, happened to the carpentry business/trade, NOTHING would be built."

rob · Post by **rob** » Mon May 13, 2002 2:37 pm

There's a 1962 Strat at the Guitar Center in Buffalo, NY going for $7500. I think for the price, this one must have once belonged to Jimi Hendrix.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Mon May 13, 2002 3:27 pm

or his next door neighbors ,uncle's best friends buddy that worked on the towers at the first Woodstock concert .

There are many pristine 'vintage' guitars that are junk as a tool ...that is one of three reasons for the 'mint' condition .

The others being , the kid never learned to play the thing and it was under Billy's bed for years .

The other reason is , Susan got it for her birthday and she wanted Billy's attention , after he dumped her .... it went under the bed.

In either case they both went to Viet Nam and were killed in a raid.
I love hearing those 'true' life stories.

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Mon May 13, 2002 3:54 pm

A Strat lover came over to my house the other day and saw my Arbor Strat sitting in the corner and said "Cool"! It has a nice autumn glow finish, and looks good from a distance and is worth about $50 max. I denounced it right away for what it was and he said, "well, the rusted screws and yellowing are very desirable". He owns some great strats and knows tone well, but his vision is still "colored" by the worn look of a guitar. Now, if a beat up Rick was worth anything, then mine would be the most expensive one registered here.

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue May 14, 2002 1:17 am

All things considered, in the end it is my view that the validated history of the instrument is the most important factor. Lennon's throw away is going to fetch a handsome sum no matter the condition or playability. To stretch the point beyond reason, I am wondering what an original Pete Townshend only used once Rickenbacker guitar (shipped in a shoebox) might fetch.

markthemd · Post by **markthemd** » Tue May 14, 2002 1:30 pm

I wonder how many Pete went through ?!?!?

He still uses them .I went to the Quadrophenia show a few years ago , he used The Rick (Pete Signature) a Strat with the Roland syth pickup , a Les Paul DLX with the numbers on the top and a Takamine ....he needs a Rick acoustic with pickup .
That would move some guitars !

I do agree that Lennon and Harrison and McGuinn are the key to all the guitar success.

I just think there needs to be some one to take the torch.

If Gibson stopped with Nick Lucas or Fender with Buddy Merrill (Lawrence Welk) or Eldon Shamblin(Bob Wills Texas Playboys) ....do you think any thing would be different?

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Tue May 14, 2002 1:48 pm

There seem to be tons and tons and tons of Gibsons and Fenders being sold right now. At some point, a great many are going to be hitting second owners and prices are going to be affected. By how much, I don't know, but a flooded used market usually shouldn't help new guitar sales. Used Ricks (regular issue) seem to sell close in retail price to new ones, or even more (not inlcuding re-issues or special editions for any brand).

admin · Post by **admin** » Tue May 14, 2002 3:50 pm

Mr. Phelps wrote Quote:"Used Ricks (regular issue) seem to sell close in retail price to new ones"
Right you are Rkbsound. To me this reflects the high quality of Rickenbackers. I actually prefer used instruments as they can be had at a slightly lower price and by the time I get to them they have stood the test of time. So how long will it be before I can pick up a used 360/12C63?

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Tue May 14, 2002 5:06 pm

Long before I will!

basshawk · Post by **basshawk** » Tue May 14, 2002 5:06 pm

Good question Peter. Like Nick T. said over on VT, the "v" series are starting to show up more and more now. The owners of those are letting them go for the "c" series now. Time for me to figure out a way to come up with the $$$ for one of those V's.

ted_williams · Post by **ted_williams** » Tue May 14, 2002 7:15 pm

Actually, I think the V series is just a bit inflated right now because the C's aren't shipping yet. It's a seller's market right now. In a couple of years (hopefully) when C's are shipping in volume and a secondhand C market develops, the V's should be an excellent value. Just my opinion. I would be interested in hearing the thoughts of some economists (armchair or otherwise).

kennyhowes · Post by **kennyhowes** » Tue May 14, 2002 8:49 pm

My 2Â¢:

I love beat-up Rics. Love 'em love 'em love 'em.

A few reasons:
- They don't cost as much as NM examples;
- They seem to play better;
- I'm not afraid to take them onstage and/or scratch them;
- They have character and tell a story.

With that in mind, someone find me a beat-up pre-'72 JG hollowbody 12 string!

Have fun!
-KH

P.S. Still have an '89 330 wht/blk for sale. Write me.{

rkbsound · Post by **rkbsound** » Wed May 15, 2002 3:23 am

If my Rick tells one more story, I'm gonna duct tape it's sound hole!

aladams · Post by **aladams** » Tue May 28, 2002 8:05 am

OH! You Brute!!! That's flagrant Ric abuse!!! That baby's life is to tell stories!!! Don't block free speach...or TONE!!! AL