Adjusting a twisted neck?

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:19 pm

I have been playing around with a ES-17 Electro (420) neck for a few weeks. The neck is twisted (the low (fat) E string side is pulling forward and down). I have been playing around with the truss rods a bit, but no luck. My gut instinct is to tighten the rod near the low E string, but the intonation at the 12 fret gets worse.

The intonation on the 12th fret at the low E and A are slightly flat, D is pretty good, G jumps very sharp, and B & E are sharp but not as much as G. Seems any way I turn the rods the strings intonation, relative to each other, gets worse. Any suggestions.

dale_fortune · Post by **dale_fortune** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:09 pm

Get one of these!
http://photobucket.com/albums/b53/DaleFortune/000_0308.jpg

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:02 pm

I believe there is a new one I would love!

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:03 pm

I will trade you straight up!

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:33 pm

For a second there, I thought I was going to see a picture of a pipe wrench...

winston · Post by **winston** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:28 pm

Hi Paul as you know I'm not as expert in these matters as you or our esteemed colleagues are.

So with that caveat, If it was my guitar I would adjust the neck as best I could and then move the bridge relative to it's scale length so that I could intonate the guitar.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:47 pm

Of course, Brian. It would have taken me about 250 words to say exactly that...

The bridge movement on Ricks is usually unnecessary, but there must be some problems because our esteemed compadre Ed Roman sells an offset bridge for older 360s.

So I imagine you are referring to adjusting the individual saddles, not the bridge proper. But you are correct about the order--neck first, check with feeler gauges under 7th or 8th fret on both low "E" and high "E" strings after holding all strings down at the first fret with a capo and fretting the two strings at the 19th fret. Relief on the bass side should be .008-.010" and on the treble side .005"-.007", depending upon your playing style and the strings you're using. A lot of folks go with more relief than this, but if you can get into this ballpark, you'll have an excellent playing guitar. Ricks sometimes buzz a bit unamplified, but sound fine once plugged in.

Then you can go about setting the intonation. Strings should be as new as possible and of a recommended gauge. A bit of clock oil on the saddle screws help things a bit on an older instrument.

Was that 250 words? Hope at least it was clear...

winston · Post by **winston** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:47 pm

Thanks Paul As always you come to the rescue.

I am glad that you understood what I was attemting to say. However I would not automatically assume that the bridge is in the correct position. I have seen some very strange things over the 40 years I have been playing guitar.

Judging by some of the things Mr. Roman says and sells must he have seen the odd strange thing also.

Simple measurement will confirm the placement of the bridge in relationship to the 12th fret. Setting intonation from there is the easy part. Adjusting the neck takes some knowledge, skill and patience. Not for the feint of heart.

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:11 pm

The 420 bridge does not have saddle adjustments, just height. Looks like a parts guitar. I have had such good luck with the double truss rods, but all luck comes to an end.

winston · Post by **winston** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 pm

David,

Post a close-up picture of the bridge on the guitar. There may be a solution

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:21 am

Yes, I'd like to see a close-up, too. There is a time-honored procedure for setting intonation on a non-adjustable bridge as well, but it assumes the the neck is straight.

Brian, once the principles and procedures for adjustment are understood, I do not believe neck adjustment to be such a courageous act! A good understanding of the principles and processes are essential to overcome fear. That, and a lot of patience. Rickenbackers have the most responsive necks in the business, and are a pleasure to adjust.

winston · Post by **winston** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:30 am

I do understand the priciples and I have no problem adjusting necks on my Strats. I am fearless in that regard. After all screw it up or wear it out like my old friend Rory Gallagher did and you just throw it away and put another one on.

But a Ric. Not me. It would be like watching surgery for entertainment. Its not high on my list of things that I want to do. I have far too much love and respect for my Rics. Those I will leave to professionals.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:52 am

Brian, didn't mean to diminish your trepidation by inference.

But Rickenbacker necks are really sweet and unless totally abused and trashed will respond in kind to carefully-considered, non-meathook treatment. A number of members have put the procedure down in writing on the Forum.

Adjusting most Fender necks is like trying to twist a log with a pair of needlenose pliers, in comparison to adjusting a Rick neck.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:10 am

sometimes an ric neck will go goofy without abuse ... but it is rare ... when you work with wood sometimes it will curve the wrong way ...

xcoyle · Post by **xcoyle** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:58 am

Here is a picture of a 450/420 bridge on the forum. My camera is out of commission.

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