'75 4001FL - truss rod troubles

endlessbassic · Post by **endlessbassic** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:12 pm

Hello all.. I'm aware that some of these issues have been covered (to varying degrees) before, and i apologize for the semi-revisitation. However, i'm looking for some more specific instruction/help, and on the advice of Jeff Rath, i'm posting here in hopes of gaining some advice on the following situation:

I'm the proud owner of a '75 4001FL (b.g.), and have never needed to adjust the truss rods in the 9+ years i've had it.
However, i recently purchased a Hipshot ric-replacement bass
bridge, and needed to tighten the rods, as the action was beyond high. So, off with the TRC.. the bad news: the nuts are both pretty rounded (as a result of an open-end wrench in it's past?) and were bent down into the t-rod cavity. The 'good' news is i could get just enough bite on them to turn them (properly, mind you, following the old-style rod-adjusting protocol, and using the proper wrench), but in doing so, i split one of the nuts in half, and the threads on the rod aren't looking too hot either.. So, here are my questions:

1) Do i need to pull the rods and re-cut/clean the threads? If so, can someone please tell me exactly how to pull the rods; they do slide easily, but only to the edge of the TR cavity, and i have no interest in further damage by exerting upward pressure on the fingerboard.

2) Is it possible to just purchase new nuts, if a re-thread is needed? I've looked all over creation for these, and am getting the impression i'll have to go to a machine shop/pro fastener supply to have them fabricated..

3) Should i just replace the rods? I've emailed all kinds of folks who supposedly can make these, but almost no one's responded.

4) Is there another solution/alternative to my little conundrum (HotRods, etc.)? If so, i am all ears, as this is my one and only bass, and i play(ed) her every day..

I'm not opposed to taking the long way home and doing the work myself, as i know of no one in the Chicago area that's experienced with 4001's. For the record, the original bridge is now back on the bass, but obviously it'll still need adjusting, or at the very least, the t-rods will need to be secured.

Any assistance anyone can provide will be so greatly appreciated. I don't have access to a camera, so pics aren't available, but if my descriptions aren't helpful, i'll do my best to re-clarify. Also, sorry for the very long post.. just wanted to be clear. Thanks much in advance..

rickaddict · Post by **rickaddict** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:55 pm

Be nice to Ted Staberow. He's a member here, lives in the Chicago area(as do I), and knows RIC truss rods!

Welcome Cale!

endlessbassic · Post by **endlessbassic** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:23 pm

Oops.. certainly didn't mean to imply that there weren't any good guys here in Chicago, just that i didn't know about them.. I will certainly try to find him! Thanks much, Jeff!

Anyone else have any thoughts? I'm still all 'all ears', as i'd like to try to handle as much of this myself as possible before going to a professional. And if doing this work myself seems like a 'more trouble awaits' scenario, don't hesistate to tell me!

doctorwho · Post by **doctorwho** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:05 pm

Cale, welcome to the Forum! I suggest that you cross-post this in the Vibrola section, which is where such technical matters are addressed (i.e., where all the experts are!).

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:02 am

Welcome Cale ... as I told you before I do a lot of work on Ric basses and other basses ... but I have never worked on the old truss rod system ... don't let an idiot work on that bass ... some tech's are idiots when it comes to Rics ... Ted is in your area and he has done work on old and new necks ... I had a bass that he replaced the fret board ...

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:07 am

Here's some technical info from http://www.main.rickresource.com/

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4001 Truss Rod Adjustment Notes:
The section of the Technical Pages provides information regarding the rewiring of the adjustment of 4001 model truss rods. It is important to note that for models made before 1984 that the truss rods were not designed to move the neck by tightening alone. For pre 1984 instruments, the neck should be moved into place manually and then the rods tightened to hold the neck in position. Failing to follow this procedure may pop the fretboard from the neck of your Rickenbacker.

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From Michael Novak: alt.guitar.rickenbacker
Posted on March 1, 1999

Back off both nuts, then retighten just until you feel contact with the bearing plate. Tune to pitch. You need to flex the neck back towards straightness before tightening the rods. This can be done using simple gravity and (very little) muscle, or with a clamping setup.

The quick and dirty way is to put the neck across your lap. Hold down the first few frets with your left hand. Let the body hang in space. The body's weight will straighten the neck somewhat while you tighten the rods with your right hand.

The more accurate, but more slow and cumbersome way: You need two pieces of wood slim enough to sit on the fingerboard between your D + A strings. Pad the sides that will touch the fingerboard with cork. You need a reasonably stiff board as long as the neck. Last, you need one clamp with padded jaws that opens to at least 9-10". Place one small piece between the nut and first fret, the other around the 15th fret. Rest the long board on edge on these two pieces. Place your clamp at the 6th fret. Apply just enough clamp tension so that the whole affair will not fall apart. Get your straightedge. Tighten the clamp until you're satisfied (I never go for a totally straight neck). Snug up the rods. Release the clamp, and check your progress.

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From RICK12DR: alt.guitar.rickenbacker
Posted on March 8, 1999

A little trick I do when I have had to remove truss rods[the old ones] is once I get them out, I use 4/0 steel wool to clean any rust and other **** off of them,polish them up a bit, and then I wax them up with Johnsons' paste floor wax and buff them with a clean towel or rag. This way, you kind of seal the metal against further rusting, as well as make the rods move easier.I also got myself a thread cutting die[a 10-32NF] and redo the threads to clean them up,as most efforts to adjust old rods ends up dinging the threads.I also put around 1/4" more thread length on the rod, too,and this always seems to help.I believe that die cutter size is stated correctly, but if in doubt, take one of the adjusting nuts to the hardware store with you to double check.

endlessbassic · Post by **endlessbassic** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:16 am

Hi Jeff.. this is the info that i followed the first time, though there's no specific instructions on removing the t-rods.. just what to do once they're out. I've got an email out to Ted.

Gary, that's a good idea.. i think i'll throw this over there as well!

Thanks to you both!

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:41 am

If you remove the nuts and the alluminum block they should slide right out.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:16 am

sometimes you have to tap them a little to get them out ...

here's some pics of a 4003 that I replaced the rods on ...

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:07 am

The '75 has the older rods. They can be pulled from the headstock end. There are no nuts at the body.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:18 am

What holds them in place then?

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:43 am

They tighten against themselves. It is folded at the body end and comes back to the aluminum block.

ilan · Post by **ilan** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:35 am

Link to the Rickenbacker 4001 Truss Rod Repair Project

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:45 am

folded is an interesting term for a steel rod

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:48 pm

how about musical bent?