Does anyone know what it would take for John Hall to consider making the 4005 Hollowbody Bass again?
I've always wanted one but cant afford the 3k kind of money that they are going for on the vintage market now.
Bob
New 4005's ?
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Robert: If you are able to get a vintage 4005 that you like my suggestion is that you strongly consider getting it. My reason for this response is based on John Hall's article posted to alt.guitar.rickenbacker on January 7, 2000. The text of his response to posts asking about a new production of the 4005 follows.
The same price as a 4003? In your dreams, folks!
1. The amount of work involved to produce a hollow body instrument is significantly greater. Not only is there the carving on the front and routing on the back, there's the secondary operations such as laminating the back pieces together and to the body.
2. The inserted neck is also much more labor intensive.
3. This is a BIG bass, with probably close to 3 times the Maple involved and probably double the finish surface area. Special lumber orders would be necessary due to size, and much more hand sanding would be required.
4. A case to fit this would also use significantly greater materials.
5. The tailpieces are about an even exchange but the bridge of the 4005 would be significantly greater. There might be some small savings on the treble pickup assembly to offset this.
6. The tooling costs of the 4003 has been amortized off over tens of thousands of instruments. The 4005 would have a major tooling expense over perhaps only a few hundred units. Just a rough guess, but it wouldn't surprise me if we'd spend $80,000 to bring this to market.
My very quick take on a list price? $3500 to $4000. Maybe even more.
Cheers, John Hall
Model 4005 Closeup
The same price as a 4003? In your dreams, folks!
1. The amount of work involved to produce a hollow body instrument is significantly greater. Not only is there the carving on the front and routing on the back, there's the secondary operations such as laminating the back pieces together and to the body.
2. The inserted neck is also much more labor intensive.
3. This is a BIG bass, with probably close to 3 times the Maple involved and probably double the finish surface area. Special lumber orders would be necessary due to size, and much more hand sanding would be required.
4. A case to fit this would also use significantly greater materials.
5. The tailpieces are about an even exchange but the bridge of the 4005 would be significantly greater. There might be some small savings on the treble pickup assembly to offset this.
6. The tooling costs of the 4003 has been amortized off over tens of thousands of instruments. The 4005 would have a major tooling expense over perhaps only a few hundred units. Just a rough guess, but it wouldn't surprise me if we'd spend $80,000 to bring this to market.
My very quick take on a list price? $3500 to $4000. Maybe even more.
Cheers, John Hall
Model 4005 Closeup
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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John also said to me in an email that reproducing the 4000 would run into the same problems. Hey I'm an idiot...I'd pay whatever they wanted for a 4000 & a 4005, and I don't think I'm the only one. I'm not that original.
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Brian: I really like the looks of the 4005 although I have never had the opportunity to play one. Rickenbacker has so many irons in the fire with regard to Rickenbacker bass models that I suspect that they are luke warm about the 4005. It will be interesting to see what their approach will be should the 4001V63 be discontinued.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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I can't imagine why a 4000 bass would be spendy to bring back, unless for some silly reason they wanted to do the "glued in" neck design that was introduced around '72.My personal opinion of that
was that it's just dumb.A true 4000 bass is simply
a V63 with No neck PU route and no PU route on the
pickguard.In short, a V63 with a few less operations to do in production.But then, I don't make those calls at the factory, so what do I know?You vintage guys out there know what I mean..
was that it's just dumb.A true 4000 bass is simply
a V63 with No neck PU route and no PU route on the
pickguard.In short, a V63 with a few less operations to do in production.But then, I don't make those calls at the factory, so what do I know?You vintage guys out there know what I mean..
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Mike
Tell me a bit about the body and headstock changes during the last 35 years on the 4001 basses. The headstock changed in about 70, body changed a few times in 70s and 80s, then the headstock changed again and even the 4001v63 is not quite right. It's an almost-copy. The latest headstock shape is pretty ugly too.
It has changed constantly.
This was cut by hand and if the template was layed out crooked,one side sanded more than the other,tuner holes drilled too close to the edge,you could get a different headstock.
This was never done using a bearing cutter or clamped using a pin router.
I have no idea of it is done on a CNC machine now .
I would guess that it is.
I have 7 4001 and 4003 basses in my shop at the moment and they come from different eras....yes they are different.SO What!!!!
Are Ford Thunderbirds from day one the same....no
How about Fender Strats?
Gibson Les Pauls?
Only in the last 5 to 10 years has the guitar industry really embraced CNC tooling for woodworking.
I'm sure it will change once more.
I'm curious to see the path that JH will be taking Rickenbacker on.I am awaiting with HIGH hopes a renewed and world class guitar line.
With the passing of the vintage re-issues,maybe he can get on with a new idea.
There are plenty of good ones.....just listen to all the chat groups.
Time to move on and see what else there is.
This was cut by hand and if the template was layed out crooked,one side sanded more than the other,tuner holes drilled too close to the edge,you could get a different headstock.
This was never done using a bearing cutter or clamped using a pin router.
I have no idea of it is done on a CNC machine now .
I would guess that it is.
I have 7 4001 and 4003 basses in my shop at the moment and they come from different eras....yes they are different.SO What!!!!
Are Ford Thunderbirds from day one the same....no
How about Fender Strats?
Gibson Les Pauls?
Only in the last 5 to 10 years has the guitar industry really embraced CNC tooling for woodworking.
I'm sure it will change once more.
I'm curious to see the path that JH will be taking Rickenbacker on.I am awaiting with HIGH hopes a renewed and world class guitar line.
With the passing of the vintage re-issues,maybe he can get on with a new idea.
There are plenty of good ones.....just listen to all the chat groups.
Time to move on and see what else there is.
So you too want yours "ALAPWOB"?!?!
Peter, have you heard why RIC wants to discontinue the 4001 V63? I wrote in another section that maybe it means that McCartney has relented and will lend his name to a limited edition signature bass. Probably not, but just in case...remember you heard it here first. I am probably going to order the 4001V63 PMC LH in Fireglo just in case they do stop making them.
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bassman
Brian, Mr Hall has announced that the factory will start to discontinue the re-issue line. The first three models to be discontinued are ; 1997, 1997SPC and the 4001v63PMC.
He also announced that the factory will no longer accept orders for these particular instruments after December 20th (i believe) of this year. Further announcements will be made as the phase out gets underway. You can look to the Rickenbacker.com site under the "News" button for this information in the not to distant future.
As for the 4001v63, todate there has been no announcement of it being discontinued.
Bottom line, is if you want a 4001v63PMC you need to get your order placed by the middle of December to be assured that you'll get one.
We are all keeping our fingers crossed for the new model offerings from the factory which will be shown and announced in mid January at the NAMM show in LA.
Cheers
He also announced that the factory will no longer accept orders for these particular instruments after December 20th (i believe) of this year. Further announcements will be made as the phase out gets underway. You can look to the Rickenbacker.com site under the "News" button for this information in the not to distant future.
As for the 4001v63, todate there has been no announcement of it being discontinued.
Bottom line, is if you want a 4001v63PMC you need to get your order placed by the middle of December to be assured that you'll get one.
We are all keeping our fingers crossed for the new model offerings from the factory which will be shown and announced in mid January at the NAMM show in LA.
Cheers
Bassman, thanks for the info. I hope RIC has something cool up their sleeves. Anyway I will order the 4001V63 PMC before the deadline! Can't wait for the NAMM show in LA.
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Landonion_the_bass_player
WHERE DID THIS RUMOR COME FROM!!!!!!
I've been reading the rumors here that the 4001V63 is in possible danger of being discontinued someday...Man!!!!I hope not..tell me it's not true... It's the flagship of the 4000 line. Yea...it's the most expensive (maybe because of inflation??or cost--that can't be a reason!!). I think it looks the best and has all the best features.. It has the toaster pickup and the Horseshoe pickup..(totally cool) And no binding It's like getting a brand new 4001S. I have a 4001CS-It's not made anymore(it's a custom 4001V63)..The 4001V63 is THE TRADEMARK RICKENBACKER BASS!!!IT MUST NEVER EVEN HAVE THE THOUGHT BROUGHT UP OF BEING DISCONTINUED!!and by the way whats the talk of this "new Headstock" on the Reissue bass.. I've seen some brand new Reissue basses and they look great. I don't see anything wrong with the headstocks..What is all that about... Please RICKENBACKER discontinue the 4003 if anything has to go..NOT THE 4001V63..offer it with the removeable bridge pickup cover and optional binding..if that is a issue with customers...
I've been reading the rumors here that the 4001V63 is in possible danger of being discontinued someday...Man!!!!I hope not..tell me it's not true... It's the flagship of the 4000 line. Yea...it's the most expensive (maybe because of inflation??or cost--that can't be a reason!!). I think it looks the best and has all the best features.. It has the toaster pickup and the Horseshoe pickup..(totally cool) And no binding It's like getting a brand new 4001S. I have a 4001CS-It's not made anymore(it's a custom 4001V63)..The 4001V63 is THE TRADEMARK RICKENBACKER BASS!!!IT MUST NEVER EVEN HAVE THE THOUGHT BROUGHT UP OF BEING DISCONTINUED!!and by the way whats the talk of this "new Headstock" on the Reissue bass.. I've seen some brand new Reissue basses and they look great. I don't see anything wrong with the headstocks..What is all that about... Please RICKENBACKER discontinue the 4003 if anything has to go..NOT THE 4001V63..offer it with the removeable bridge pickup cover and optional binding..if that is a issue with customers...
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Landonion_the_bass_player
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squirebass
- Veteran RRF member
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- Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:05 pm
Landonion,
To answer your headstock question, I believe that most people are referring to the shape of the headstock changing around '96 or so to a much shorter, fatter looking headstock. I have a '93 v63 and it has a long, thinner looking headstock with a sorta "hourglass" shape to it. I also own a '97 v63 that has a much shorter, fatter headstock to it that isn't so tapered. I personally prefer the thinner shape like on my '93 model. To me, it looks much more like headstock on the original vintage 4001s models that you usually see only in books!
I have noticed that the earlier 4001CS models had this thinner headstock but the later ones at the end of the production run had the fatter headstock. Which one does yours have?
To answer your headstock question, I believe that most people are referring to the shape of the headstock changing around '96 or so to a much shorter, fatter looking headstock. I have a '93 v63 and it has a long, thinner looking headstock with a sorta "hourglass" shape to it. I also own a '97 v63 that has a much shorter, fatter headstock to it that isn't so tapered. I personally prefer the thinner shape like on my '93 model. To me, it looks much more like headstock on the original vintage 4001s models that you usually see only in books!
I have noticed that the earlier 4001CS models had this thinner headstock but the later ones at the end of the production run had the fatter headstock. Which one does yours have?
"This is the big one, Elizabeth, I'm coming to join ya, honey!"