Early 80's SVT vs 70's

kojakcurtis · Post by **kojakcurtis** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:17 am

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the difference between an MTI era SVT and the 70's or modern SVT heads.

jnbass · Post by **jnbass** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:25 am

tone

calling Mr Ampeg Bob Young...

chucksimms · Post by **chucksimms** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:48 am

I seem to recall some discussion about this previously. I'm also curious. I had a 70s V4B rig for many years that was great. I recently played a show with a brand new SVT and thought it was quite poor in comparison. Inquiring minds want to know!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:09 am

I like the tone on the older ones better too. They seem to have more character, bite or what ever you want to call it, some people might call it distortion, haha! I don't know. I think the old ones are run hotter and harder with higher voltages etc. I know the older ones have a lot more gain and seem louder. I'm comparing this to new classics and an 87 skunkworks head I own, I've never tried an MTI head. Greg Simon has one, I don't know if he's ever tried a 70's head maybe he'll let us know. I do know the 70's heads had better transformers in them than MTI heads though. The bass player for AC/DC prefers MTI heads. I would buy a 70's Magnavox head if it were me, any year, even over the early Linden NJ heads which are worth more but supposedly the Magnavox heads were the epitome at least according to a pretty well known amp expert who's name escapes me right now. Terry Buddingh.

rob · Post by **rob** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:32 am

Cliff Williams would be the bass player for AC/DC.

In a video I saw, I swear I saw him use Mesa/Boogie's.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:39 am

Maybe, the article I read was a few years old although I've always seen him with SVT's, he was an endoser at one time. Maybe Mesa is paying him more.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:50 pm

The really early MTI made heads from about 1981 used the same transformers as the Magnavox era SVT's. As you get later in the MTI era, (I would guess any later than 1981), they used Japanese sourced transformers, which supply a little lower plate voltage to the power tubes, and they aren't as good of quality. All the MTI's used inferior caps and resistors to the Magnavox era, but with any old SVT those should all be gone through anyway and replaced if bad, so that isn't much of a concern because you could use some great modern manufacture stuff and just replace them. The plate voltage difference between the MTI's and the Magnavox's isn't huge...maybe 50v or less, so the power output is going to be just about the same as any Magnavox era one. The MTI's are closer to the Magnavox era than to the modern era by a longshot. The circuit in the MTI's is exactly the same as the Magnavox era SVT's.

My MTI is a very early MTI made one, and uses the same exact transformers as Bob's Magnavox era ones, so mine will sound the same as his. I've played a late MTI from around 1985, with Japanese sourced transformers, and it had been rebuilt with modern caps and resistors, and it sounded better than mine, although the power was a tad lower. Maybe you had to be on 3 1/2 instead of 3 to get the same volume, but it wasn't a drastic difference. Mine still has all original caps and resistors in it except for two coupling caps that went bad. I've played a couple 70's Magnavox ones, and I've played a Lindon NJ 6146 SVT also. The 6146 version was louder, with a lot more mid range emphasis than any other SVT, and was a little more aggressive too probably. I liked the sound of any SVT equipped with 6550's or KT88's much better however, and the Magnavox era SVT sounded just like my MTI for the most part. If you could find any MTI for around $800 to $1000, and working fine, I wouldn't let that stop you from getting one. If you can find a Magnavox era one for around the same price, then get that one however, because most people don't know how close the MTI ones are and so won't pay as much for them.

kojakcurtis · Post by **kojakcurtis** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:41 pm

I appreciate everyone's input. Your explanation was very informative Greg.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:55 pm

You're welcome Chris. Have you found one that you're considering buying, or just on the lookout for one?

Any old SVT, MTI and older will be better than anything made since, but the newer ones are still nicer than anything not Ampeg and tube powered.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:45 pm

SO... Why is it better than a Sunn or Hiwatt? just curious.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:00 pm

You'd have to live with one for a little while, they have a classic sound, it's not a coincidence that all of those programmed boxes have a SVT sound built in to to them. They are a lot more powerful than any tube Sunn or Hiwatt bass amps that I've ever heard of. They will knock a wall over, that was how they were described to me when I was 19 and asked a guitar player what he thought was the best bass amp going, this was in 1972. I still believe that they were and are the pinnacle of bass amps. The first ones were made in 1969 and they are still making them although somewhat modified, that's a long time. The old ones sound better than the new ones but if I were going to buy a new amp it would still be an SVT, an SVT-CL, those still sound better than any other amps out there IMHO. Ampeg started out as a bass amp and microphone manufacturer for upright basses in the forties, they have been around longer than Fender and all the rest of the current amp manufacturers although they've been bought and sold many times. The only real complaint you hear from most bassists is the weight and the expense, many don't like the maintainance either which really isn't that bad and most people who bring that up as a negative have never owned one, and a few just plain don't like them, but I would be willing to bet that they and the B-15's are the most widely used and respected bass amps in the world.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:36 pm

Bob, you should have ended with "Grasshopper"! What a great testimony to Ampeg! I had a Sunn 100 watt and a Plush 2x15 tuck and roll cab in 72 and it was all I knew. Seemed to do the job! Before that I had a Fender bassman combo 1x15. Then, no play for 20 years!

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:31 am

I've owned a bunch of amps in my time before SVT's including a Marshall Major, a Sunn 2000S, Fender Dual showman, Fender Bassmans, and a Fender Bandmaster, a Univox something or other and last but not least, my first amp: an RCA console TV with a 12" speaker.
What's Grasshopper Charlie?

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:50 am

I was just referring to the Old Kung Fu tv show.

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:59 am

I've got a Sunn 200S that I rebuilt and modified, and a Sunn 2000S that is completely stock, in addition to the early MTI era SVT. The Sunns and the SVT don't really sound anything like each other. I like the Sunn sound for certain things, but if I had to choose one amp, the SVT would win hands down. It has more power, and a bigger range of adjustment to the tone, and there are no particular hot frequencies, so all of the notes on the bass have the same volume, which makes everything really punchy. One of the best bass amps I've ever played is an Ampeg B15N, although those are a lot lower on power than even the Sunn 200S, which is only 60 watts. I've played Fenders for bass, and I like them, and I've played Hiwatts for bass, and I like them too, but nothing beats an SVT in my book. When I think of a bass sound, it is an SVT, just like when you think of an electric guitar, its a Strat. My 2 cents anyway.