Before the Beatles -Teen Idols

winston · Post by **winston** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:06 am

Roy,

I am glad to hear that BV is in apparently good health. The timbre of his voice as it is now, I believe tells it's own story. I had an opportunity last night to compare both versions side by side. He was a singer back then who had good "control" of his voice. The comparison from then to now in my view demonstrates that his control has greatly diminished. In fact he sounds like a different person.

Having said that I agree with you his talent as a performer shines through. He deserves far more respect than we have shown him here.

You know upon reflection many of the crooners in the 50's did not have great voices by todays' standards. What they had was a good strong voice, great delivery and great stage presence.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:57 am

Dane... you never quit, do you?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:43 am

But would the majority of those who fill those theaters come back for a second listen?

Two words: Probably not.

I think the curiosity of once again seeing an idol of one's youth is bringing people in, but the disappointment of hearing bland new material would make attendance a one-time affair for most.

I played BV's new version for some work mates or both sexes this morning. Unanimous consensus was something like "yeccchhh". I may have mispelled that, though.

I love BV. The old BV's music was far better than the new.

Of course performers should call it a day when the music and excitement has dried up. Otherwise it seems like a cynical move to take fans' money.

I'm not accusing BV of this, mind you. It was merely a statement of principle(s).

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:37 am

Musicians whose style or primetime of ability or talent has passed should not be forced into retirement. Often, people will prefer the music they grew up with. A lot of people grew up with BV, and want to see him. Besides, performing is his Job.
Is it a crime that he wants to have some new product along with his old? With the exception of Tony Bennett, I don't see a lot of singers improve when in their '60's and '70's, but they still have fans and a right to "sell" their product.
I've seen many many concerts by the biggest names, but only maybe 5 of those artists I'd go back for a second time.
If in 10 years the Stones are playing backyard BBQ's, I'd say good for them and pass the hat.

brammy · Post by **brammy** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:53 am

>>> Is it a crime that he wants to have some new product along with his old?

Not at all. It's the sound of the new product and how he destroyed a great song ... THAT is the crime.

(but I agree... Tony Bennett is great)

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:19 am

Paul
To use your style of delivery

DO you think a UK promotor would keep bringing him back over here if he wasn't doing the business?

Definately not

Jerry

You are spot on

Kent

You are making a judgement on one song, I happen to have Carol King's demo of the song that BV made famous, he made it great assisted by Snuff Garrett who produced it.

As some of you who have bothered to look at Clough Links may know, I am a Searchers nut but I don't like how they have released 4 "live" albums sold at gigs in which they put the odd new song on but primarily just do the hits over and over which can never capture the sound of the 60's, at least BV has used some originality and not released re-recordings of his best known songs, he knows they won't sound the same as 43 years ago so on this one song he gives it a different slanT.

Give the man credit for trying to put out new product, you don't have to like it, I accept that, but it is sufficient to say you don't like it rather than the somewhat petulant attitude of trying to degrade it.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:59 pm

It's opinions, Roy. Everybody's got 'em and we vote with our wallets. That's a capitalistic democracy.

Petulant, my a**. Even my eight-year-old is beyond petulant. Downgrade, yes. Degrade, no.

Sure you're not being a bit hero-worshippy?

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:19 pm

I went and saw The Four Seasons a few years ago, Franki Valli's far past his best days, I don't think he can falsetto much if at all anymore. He had a keyboard player who did most if not all the high stuff and he skipped a lot of his higher hits. It all pointed to the fact that the voice changes over time, did I enjoy them, yes, would I go see him again, probably. It was nice seeing someone that I loved as a kid still out there performing even though it was obvious his best days were way behind. I give all these guys credit and respect for staying out there in the pits slugging it out. I applaud Bobby Vee and anyone else that has the guts to go out and still play after many years knowing their best years are probably behind them for good and the hits have stopped a long time ago. They are legends and although not above criticism they also deserve respect for what they have done in the past and respect for still doing it.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:58 pm

No argument from me on this as a general principle. Talented people have much to contribute, regardless of age, and most people of this ilk simply get better with age, even though they might lose their edge.

I, too, applaud these guys for staying in the fray. I saw Brian Wilson in September '00 at the Hollywood Bowl, performing Pet Sounds live on stage for the first time with full orchestra, etc. It was the real rebirth of his career after many false starts, and he was in fine form although he had a female singer to double his higher falsetto parts.

I've not seen BV live, ever, and he may be just as good now as ever, but with a different flavor. I still was very put off by the Take Good Care, etc. recent cut. People for whom I played it all asked who that was who was massacring what they thought was a great old song. When I told them, the reaction was universally negative. I don't think this version stands up to the original. I do not mean to attack BV's talent or the fact that he's out there and still drawing crowds in the UK and possibly here, too. Good for him. My opinion--opinion--is that the recent cut is terrible.

If I didn't know that was BV, he would be my last guess. If someone played that cut for you without telling you who it was, I wonder what your response would be. If you separate out the idol respect (or idol worship) from the music, it does not stand up well, again IMO.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:11 pm

I agree about the opinions Paul and your post above is perfectly fine to express one.

I think we'll draw a line on this one and just say opinion is divided.

Hero worship no - like the guy's music yes.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:41 am

Actually, we are in agreement on that point, Roy.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:58 am

I would not have guessed that Bobby Vee's music would develop into such a controversy.

I am fascinated by those factors that determine whether a particular track will be enjoyed or disliked. The differences of opinion with regard to his work has made for interesting reading.

I guess as they say "a night has a thousand eyes" and perhaps a couple dozen ears too.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:06 am

Yes indeed and he has actually done a totally different version of "A Night Has A Thousand Eyes", but leave that for another time I think.

winston · Post by **winston** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:22 am

Roy I would like to hear "A Night Has A Thousand Eyes" but you can send it to me off line if you don't want to stir up more controversy. You have my e-mail address if you feel so inclined

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:35 am

I would like to see it online if at all possible Roy.