Lennon Rev. Casino Finish

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:29 pm

I'm really curious as to how Lennon's Casino was stripped and refinished. Actually I wonder if the guitar was even finished with anything after it was stripped as I suspect John and George stripped the guitars themselves.

I have a Revolution Casino and the one thing I was bummed out about is that the finish is merely a faux approximation of what the color of Lennon's guitar when it was examined.

From what I gather the nitro was mixed with an amber color and was even shot over the binding. It's a thin layer and I've already wore a large patch through the finish where the pickguard would be and it the surface there now looks waxy but exposes the natural color of the wood veneer.

The troubling thing is that Epiphone went through the effort to examine the guitar down the the last detail yet took big shortcuts with the finish. Why not remain faithful to Lennon's actual finish at let the guitar naturally age and darken and change with the years?

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:26 am

I too have one. Mine's unplayed, so the finish is as new. I was not bummed, but mildly disappointed because the finish is shades darker that the photos of the real one. Mind you, it appears to be a good finish, and a pretty guitar. Overall, it doesn't bug me,and the guitar is built like a tank, but it is curious they wouldn't strive for accuracy there of all places.

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:15 am

From examining some pictures of Lennon's Casino it looks like there are a few places along the edge that have small streaks of the original finish.

While I'm not 100% sure the Epi Revolution guitars had some that were finished over the bindings and others that were not mine of course had the finish over the binding. The orange looking binding bothered me to the point I masked the guitar and used solvent to get it off.

So with the current finish do you think the color will change with age?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:01 am

The color will definitely darken with age. The guitar is not really a painstaking recreation re: finish, although it is acceptably accurate in dimension and playability. I've heard some other curmudgeons critique the sound, too, but--really-who's played the original?

John's stripper job had the thinnest coating of varnish applied over a very amateurish stripping job. Epi got that right, and if your replica is already wearing off, well, then...

randyz · Post by **randyz** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:45 am

Jamie: As a lifelong Beatles/Lennon fan, I've always been drawn to the Epi Casinos. I've owned a wonderful '66 model and currently own four Korean thinlines (Casinos and a Sorrento) and one Japanese Elite (vintage sunburst with rare factory Bigsby). The Korean guitars are a bargain and can be excellent with a few minor upgrades and a proper set-up. The Elite in my opinion is a better guitar than most of the old Casinos I've played. It plays like a dream and the workmanship is flawless. I thought about buying a Revolution, but decided that my next Casino with be another Elite with a natural finish. I like very shiny finishes on my guitars. I think it's great that Epiphone gives us the choice of several models and several finishes, and the playability is as good as ever. There's basically something for everybody these days. A few years ago that wasn't the case...

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:15 am

I've owned 4 Casinos at one point that included the MIK, The Elite and both versions of the Lennon Reissues.

While I thought the Elite was a top notch well built guitar I really disliked the thick poly finish and to me it felt like the guitar was encased in glass and screaming for air lol! The MIK felt like a toy in comparison to the others and lacked the nice acoustic qualities of the others.

I eventually sold the MIK and Elite and kept the 2 Lennon Casinos figuring I should be playing them rather than keeping them around for a special occassions. I do regret selling the Elite though even though I disliked the finish it cut more than the Lennon models.

I like the 1965 version and think Epi did a fine job on it though again I wish they didn't color the binding so dark if it was to be like an actual 1965 model!

But for all the hype with Lennon's guitar being inspected to make sure every detail was right is PR hogwash.

You're right Paul, at least the got the thin finish part right on the Revolution though I would much preferred it had they not put such a heavy tint in it. I'll take a picture of the worn area on mine which keeps spreading.

scoobster28 · Post by **scoobster28** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:53 am

I know one of the people who did examine John's casino, Andy Babiuk, and talked with him a lot about the process and stuff. He personally was the person who fought Gibson/Epiphone to have the odd colored pot knob included, and the screws to be correct. Andy pushed for every detail TO BE PERFECT when Gibson didn't think the average buyer would care. Maybe it is PR Hogwash, but on the research end there was extensive inspection done.

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:43 pm

I don't doubt the actual inspection of Lennon's guitar was legit and would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that. But to ignore the discovered details and then to hype the research for detail about the guitar was very deceiving.

It was a nice touch that a black knob was included but it looks nothing like the picture of the actual knob in Andy's book.

Perhaps one day Epiphone might release a more accurate Replica of the guitar as Gibson has done with the Clapton CrossRoads guitar. But then again I'm sure the price will match it.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:51 am

What did these Lennon Casino's go for when new?
I'd like to see a Harrison model w/bigsby.

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:56 am

The Lennon Casinos had a list of $3199 and were selling for a long time at $2300 from MF and other on-line shops. However they still could be found under that price from other vendors though.

The was a period that MF was selling "Refurb" Lennon models at $1399. I don't know what the deal with those were but it was a good price for a Lennon Casino if you could live without the hand numbering inside the guitar and an "R" stamped on the back of the headstock.

Yea, a Harrison Model with a Bigsby would be nice or an accurate replica of Lucy.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:05 am

The "refurbs" were factory seconds with very minor cosmetic defects. I sure couldn't spot anything on the ones I've seen. The price couldn't be beat!

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:59 pm

So here's a pic of the wear on my Revolution Casino. It sure didn't take much for this to start to wear. Now if they wouldn't have put the strong tint in the finish the guitar would still look like new

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:09 pm

Is it possible that they were going for "accelerated patination"?

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:28 pm

Well I believe the accelerated patination was exactly what they were after but wouldn't there have been a better way to do it?

Would it have made more sense to have stained the guitar before putting the finish on it rather than just put a tint in the nitro?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:57 pm

Now we're getting into opinions and I don't think any guitar should be built to age quickly deliberately, if that's what they were after.