Any opinions on these amps?

fenderslash · Post by **fenderslash** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:59 pm

Thanks for the responses. I've done more research on the HR DeVille & Deluxe (just user-reviews, not in person), and it appears that they're not all that great off-the-shelf. Most user reviews said the same thing... "The first thing I did was swap for xxxx tubes and xxxx speakers, and now it sounds great". I don't want to spend money on something that needs fixing out of the box.

Also the responses here just go to show another thing. Like I said in my first post "The choice is mind-boggling", and I get lots of different recommendations for lots of different amps. Unfortunately I'll only be able to test-drive a very small few of them, as I'm starved for choice in my local music shops. It also goes to prove that different hardware makes different people happy, so there's no real substitute for getting out there and test-driving these things in person. It is good to have an idea of what things to look out for though, which is where these forums are a huge benefit to me.

What I really want is an amp that'll give me a good clean channel, a good crunchy overdrive channel, and a good boost for solos, all footswitchable. I don't want it to weigh a ton, and it has to spend it's life in the band trailer being towed around from gig to gig, so it has to be reasonably durable. I haven't found anything that fits all those criteria, so now I've broadened my search and I might try out amps without a gain channel, and use a pedal to get my crunchy sound instead.

The search continues...

mp_me · Post by **mp_me** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:24 am

Soldano Reverb_o_Sonic. Great clean sound, Out of control overdrive. Beautiful Reverb. I've seen 'em for $800 - $1000 used. My sounds LOVELY/EVIL. This is a two channel amp.

If you want 3 channels (clean/crunch/boost) There is only one answer. Mesa Boogie. Either a Rect_0_Verb or a Mark IV.

OR---

2 Blues Jr.s With a Rick-0-Sound kit. The cheapest way to have your pickups coming at the audience from different locations.

As for "don't want it to weight a ton" GOOD LUCK.
GREAT TUBE AMPS ARE HEAVY. There is no getting around it. You are looking at 40 - 70 pounds for any good 50w tube combo.

steve_hershberger · Post by **steve_hershberger** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:07 am

Carl - Don't discount the Fender HR Deluxe or Deville just yet. Try them out for yourself if you can, or maybe buy one from a place with a 30 day return policy so you can put it through a real test in your own situation.

I've owned a HR Deluxe since buying it new in '97. Always kind of had a love/hate relationship with it like many others have had. I too didn't want anything that "required" an immediate speaker or tube change to sound good. I'm an old school (and simply "old") player who's more used to dealing with knob setups like vol, bass, treble (and maybe mids), reverb, and even a master volume at times too. Always liked to keep it simple as possible and use pedals for overdrive, distortion, delay, etc. I've been primarily a home player for 20 years now, but bought the HRD with the thoughts that maybe I'd get in a band again someday. Haven't done it yet, but I've used it for a lot of jam situations and it's been great to me. Thought about selling it and buying something else numerous times, but every time I play out with it I find I just can't give it up just yet. And here we are almost 8 years later...

I've still got the stock speaker in mine, well broken in by now. The only "mod" I did was add a set of THD Yellowjackets/EL-84 power tubes to cut down on the overall volume and headroom a bit (the 6L6's are real loud) and it'll sound great with single coils and humbuckers. It's still loud, butthe natural breakup happens sooner on the volume knob compared to when 6L6's are installed. In other words, let's say when the vol. with 6L6's was set at 3-4 it was very loud and still clean... With the YJ/EL-84's installed, I could turn it up to 5 or 6 and get a great edgy tone that wasn't way too loud already.

I'll agree with all the reviews you've read that the "Drive" and "More Drive" parts of this amp aren't all that great. Sometimes I'll use the "Drive" and got it to sounding real good, but overall I'd rather use various pedals played through the clean channel. Forget the "More Drive" though - except try it out just to see what it's like. Likely you'd never find a practical use for it.

But use your favorite pedals into the clean channel (and even try them with "Drive") and I'd bet you'd like it. Tweak the knobs to taste, and be ready to play with them for a while before you find your tone. It'll take some time, but it CAN be done.

For example, I mostly play Strats, a Tele, a LP Standard, or a LP Special (with P-90 pickups) and I can get great tones out of all those. For OD or distortion I use a Vox Valve Tone, Vox Distortion Booster, or the OD side of a Visual Sound Rt. 66 depending on the guitar I'm playing, the song, and the sound I want.

Now, getting to some Ric content... This past weekend was the first time I played my new (to me) '92 360/12v64 into my HRD, using the compressor side of the Rt. 66 at a jam. Sounded fabulous to me and judging by audience comments, they agreed. The Yellowjackets give the HRD a bit of "Vox-ish" tone.

Again, it's all up to personal taste, and you'll have to try it out for yourself. In a way, I kind of wished I'd had the 6L6's installed to get a really cleaner and louder tone when using my 12 string, but it sounded more than OK as it was. You know, I'm not about to change tubes just to play a few songs while using the Ric.

So I went with the setup that covered every song (and a Strat I used that day too) pretty well. My HRD is still filling that purpose.

And yeah, the weight... I've got a bad back now and the HRD is @ 45 lbs. and I live in a 3rd floor apartment. The amp is still in my car at this moment, so that's a factor too. Luckily, I've got a Vibro Champ and Princeton Reverb here too. The "big" amp can stay in the car until I'm able to carry it again.

I'm still on the lookout for an "ultimate amp" maybe something lighter, like one of those Vox 50 watters, or a Dr. Z head/cab thing, Marshall 18 watter, or who knows what... I've been playing so long that I know there's no "one" amp that can do it all, in all situations, or for all guitars.

dmkozak · Post by **dmkozak** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:14 am

Try and find a Kustom Coupe amp. They've just been released, so they're not that easy to find. There are a bunch of harmony central reviews, and they're all good. Might be worth checking out.

winston · Post by **winston** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:39 pm

Hi David,

Welcome to the forum. There's a great bunch of people here with lots and lots of experience to share and they do so very freely.

Enjoy

longhouse · Post by **longhouse** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:24 pm

T R A Y N O R

I hear one calling you...

Traaaaaaaayyyyyyynnnnnor.

jamesvwaal · Post by **jamesvwaal** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:40 pm

Where does one find a Ric-O-Sound kit for purchase?

(Too lazy to use goole!)

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:26 pm

Goole won~t help.

Try www.rickenbacker.com

(PKS=Portuguese Keyboard Syndrome...)

fenderslash · Post by **fenderslash** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:03 pm

Thanks Steve for taking the time to share your Hot Rod experience with that long post. One positive thing that I did learn from the Hot Rod reviews were that they sound great on their clean channel without any tube or speaker mods. That being the case, even if the gain channel was ****** it could still suit my purposes if I only use the clean channel with an overdrive pedal to swap between my clean and dirty sounds. These amps are still reasonably high on my short list because of that and because of their affordability and weight.

Speaking of which... Mark, you made me smile with the "Good Luck" remark. There are other tempting amps without overdrive, such as the Fender Pro Reverb, but even though the specs look pretty good the weight of it and other similarly specced amps counted them out (at about 75 lbs). When I said I didn't want an amp that weighed a ton it's not actually as bad as it reads. The Stage 160 that I lug around to gigs is about 25kgs (I'm not sure what that is in the old money), so I wouldn't be too worried if my new amp weighed that much. I don't think I'd want to go any heavier though.

Aaahh, I've just dug out the manual. Stage 160 = 24.1 kgs = 53 lbs. The DeVille is way under that.

Another problem with user reviews is that when someone says "The overdrive channel sucks" they rarely tell you what sound they're trying to achieve. Maybe it does suck if they want to sound like Metallica, but it might actually be just what I'm looking for. On Saturday afternoon I'm going to put the 360 and the Tele in the back of the ute and hit the shops.

steve_hershberger · Post by **steve_hershberger** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:03 am

Carl, I agree with you that a lot of people who say the Fender Hot Rod series "Drive" and "More Drive" sucks is because they ARE expecting it to sound like Metallica. Nothing wrong with that of course, but those people are looking at the wrong kind of amp in the first place - or they bought a HRD/Deville *expecting* it to do what they want just because those amps have the switching capabilities built in.

But, like I said, I'd rather get a good clean sound out of an amp and then use pedals to add the rest. Much easier (for me) to "set 'em and forget 'em" that way. While it'd be nice to have an amp that "does it all" I still don't think such an ideal exists, so I like a relatively clean amp that takes pedals well. And the HRD is still OK enough for me.

Oh, one last thing. The HR series amps definitely WILL sound better using quality tubes, but that's not to say the stock tubes are utter garbage. The stock tubes will be fine for using until you wear them out, but try something else when that time comes. Just saying that if you get a tone you like out of a stock HR amp, then it'll only get even better later on when you need to get more tubes. There's lots of great info on the 'net about that kind of thing.

steverok · Post by **steverok** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:45 am

I too have a HRD, that is my tube amp. I would say the clean tone is very good with both Ric and Fender guitars. I swapped the pre-amp tubes for JJ electronics, because the amp went bad, and the repairman told me it was the tubes. The amp ended up going bad, and I had to have a guy rebuild the circuit, under warranty of course, it works really well now. The distortion sound is tighter with the new tubes.

I had considered swapping it out for something else many times, but in the end, with the other tube amps I tried, including The Twin, Traynor, etc., I didn't hear enough improvement to get me to pull the trigger. It has a nice, full-sounding clean channel, add a little dirt, it shimmers and sparkles a bit more, it's a good amp.

fenderslash · Post by **fenderslash** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:09 am

Ok Noel...

You made me very curious. I've been researching Traynors now too, and I have to say that from what I've read a 40w job would definitely suit my purposes, and they appear to be very good value for money. Unfortunately there are no Traynor dealers in my city, so it'll be a big risk to mail order one without ever trying one. Do you have a preference between the 1x12 or the 2x10?; bearing in mind that I'll be miking up the amp on stage, so the front-of-house will only be "hearing" one of the 10s if I went for the 2x10.

The situation has become a bit more urgent. My Stage 160 generally lives in the band trailer and only comes out at gigs, but last night I got it and brought it home to do some recording. Something's gone wrong with it, and it sounds like most of the bottom end has vanished. It's still insanely loud though. Getting it checked and repaired could take quite a while, and since I was going to get a replacement anyway I think I'd now rather do that straight away.

Unfortunately for tomorrow night's gig I now have to choose between my ****** sounding Pro 185 and my thin sounding Stage 160.

The other choice I have to make is to play it safe and buy a Hot Rod DeVille that I can test-drive here in town, or buy a Traynor (or something else) on reputation alone.

By the way, just out of curiosity... I believe that there are actually two inputs on the AC30 - one for the clean channel and one for the gain channel, with a toggle switch to combine the channels if you desire. Would it be possible to plug my guitar into an A/B switchbox, then run two leads from the A/B box into each input on the Vox, in effect allowing me to change channels at the kick of a switch?

longhouse · Post by **longhouse** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:19 am

If you order one (Traynor) from Musician's Friend, they have a 90 day return policy. Don't like it within 90 days, send it back.

I bought the 15W model because I have all the stage volume I need from my JC120.

Are there any rental shops in your town (DooWop Shop, etc.)? It would be great to rent a Twin or something for the upcoming shows while you make your mind up about the amp you really want.

Not sure about the Vox. I know a lot of people 'bridge' the circuit so they can have both worlds. I think the new ones have remedied this though I'll admit not reading much about them. The AC30s are just SO LOUD. I've discovered the joys of keeping stage/amp volume down and letting the PA carry my sound.

Most Traynor models come with a built-in XLR jack for this purpose (sadly mine does not

). I'm completely enamored with their new blue model. *sigh*
And I have justified it in my mind on the rationale of 'I don't have any amplifiers with 10 inch speakers...'.

Depending on how much grind you like, you may find the Orange 4X10 to your liking.
Still too much volume for me.

Good luck!

ozover50 · Post by **ozover50** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:41 am

Carl: It might be worth contacting the seller on this one.............

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7352623675&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

mp_me · Post by **mp_me** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:11 am

Get an old Traynor. A nice bassmaster head. They sound better than a bassman. Then get a 1x12 cab. with wheels! Perfect! Not too big, vintage tone, cheap. (No channel switching)