and the beat goes on.....and on..
Ultimately, it all boils down to sound. For most of us older folks, we don't care a hoot about how a guitar sounds through a floor full of effects pedals. How does it sound plugged straight in to the amp?! Rickenbacker guitars are credible tools of the trade, but a 360 is not an SG! Not to say they haven't had their share of competitive gear. I've played some early 610's and 450's that really step out and that 850 has the look and sound of a killer rock & roll machine. It seems that pickups made before 1960 have a bit more 'edge' to them. The wire varied quite a bit, and samples I've taken that were supposed to be #43, were actually closer to #42. This makes a tremendous difference in distributed capacity. I believe that is what makes the hi-gains sound so 'grainy'.
In summary, if Hendrix had known about the 850, he would have certainly played one (there are so darn few of them), which prompts the obvious question: Hey JH! When are we going to see a 850C58?
Why Don't Famous Lead Guitarists Use Rickenbackers?
Moderators: rickenbrother, ajish4
Why Don't Famous Lead Guitarists Use Rickenbackers?
Because they're stupid? Maybe. Ignorant? More likely.
Rics are beautiful sounding guitars for lead and rhythm. Tearing up a lead on a Ric is like racing hard in a 1920s roadster, few have done it, whereas taking a lead on a Strat or Paul is like gunning the engine in big fat Chevy Nova (or mom and dad's car!), it's not the same but anyone can do it.
I never put my Ric down when it's time to solo.
Cheers, Noel
Because they're stupid? Maybe. Ignorant? More likely.
Rics are beautiful sounding guitars for lead and rhythm. Tearing up a lead on a Ric is like racing hard in a 1920s roadster, few have done it, whereas taking a lead on a Strat or Paul is like gunning the engine in big fat Chevy Nova (or mom and dad's car!), it's not the same but anyone can do it.
I never put my Ric down when it's time to solo.
Cheers, Noel
Listen to Steve Howe's lead playing on the original recording of Yes's "Awaken". The first half of it was played on a 360/12 and it sounds pretty fierce. in saying that when steve has played the same tune live he now opts for a Steinberger 12 due to the time involved with restringing a Ric 12, which he describes as "nightmarish"
I confused Faraday's cage, with Schrodinger's cat box....
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aladams
IMHO, I think that most of them have and use at least 1 Ric in the studio...where the TONE is extremely important; then when they're in the public's eye they use whatever they were provided by their "sponser"...eventhough it would be a Cort, Memphis, Fender, Washburn or Gibson. Kinda like Eric Clapton when he did that old beer commercial...I think he'd rather drink Pub Brew in Sheffield than that "Bud" stuff. ANY comments? AL A.
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steve_hall
Al: I hope to God Slowhand isn't drinking anymore because of his work with Crossroads in Antigua, Jamaica. It's a center for drug and alchol rehab. I don't think he's ever played a Rick before, as far as I know. Probably because Ricks haven't really been seen in the hands of the Blues masters, and possibly the image thing. Hopefully, his old friends George Harrison and Pete Townshend showed him a little about the credibility of using Ricks on recordings.
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aladams
Hi, Steve: NO - Mr. Clapton wouldn't be imbibbing at all. I went off on a tangent and probably shouldn't have...it gets confusing to some. I was thinking about the time when he did...and when it was cool to make commercails for the big brewers. I think Neil Young followed up with a song about selling out to the corporations. Mr. Clapton is a real hero...went thru the "stuff" and finally with God's help worked it out. Now he's helping out others who want "out" - some people don't want to be helped no matter who's offering. God Bless Eric Clapton! AL A.
Understanding the Voice Characteristics of a RiC Pick-up vs. an SG or LP Humbucker is a starting point. Trying to force a 360-12's signal thru a Stock, Gainey, overdriven Marshall, just sounds muddy. I'm sure that many of the Grand Masters ie. Page, Townsend, Richards, Davies etc have attempted many variations and/ or Amp combinations w/ the RiC. There is no Question that RiC's lend themselves more appropriately to Acoustic oriented and/ or Folk, oriented type sounds. That's not to say it has any less 'Balls' than an SG or LP. "Ticket to Ride" or "A Hard DAy's Nite" can stand alone, matched to anything done on record w/ an SG or Strat or LP...in my opinion.
I've got alot goin' on!!
John: I like your comments with regard to the voice characteristics of the RIC pickup. Regardless of the playability of an instrument, the sound certainly dictates the type of music that will be recorded. Without question, the sound in Ticket To Ride and A Hard Day's Night do stand up to anything out there, and let's face it the vocals aren't too shabby either. Just in passing, Joe Walsh does a fine job with the Glen Frey model using it as a slide with the RIC humbucking pickups. To some extent then, the guitar may make the artist.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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If I play a Jazzmaster, a Casino, a Fernandes Sustainer, or even an Ovation Breadwinner I still sound like myself. Me.
Rickenbacker electric guitars most closely echo the sound of my soul. The sounds I hear in my head come out of my speaker when I'm playing one of my Rics. I'm not a vintage sound re-creationist or a Beatles or Byrds cover artist either. I'm a forward-thinking musician who records endlessly and plays with others. Far too many people perpetuate the myth that Rics are 'rhythm' guitars or one-trick ponies.
It's not that lead players don't know about Rics.
They just stick to what they know. They're afraid to take the road less travelled!
It's as Marty Willson-Piper said: "Rics...demand you do SOMETHING".
Indeed.
Cheers, Noel
Rickenbacker electric guitars most closely echo the sound of my soul. The sounds I hear in my head come out of my speaker when I'm playing one of my Rics. I'm not a vintage sound re-creationist or a Beatles or Byrds cover artist either. I'm a forward-thinking musician who records endlessly and plays with others. Far too many people perpetuate the myth that Rics are 'rhythm' guitars or one-trick ponies.
It's not that lead players don't know about Rics.
They just stick to what they know. They're afraid to take the road less travelled!
It's as Marty Willson-Piper said: "Rics...demand you do SOMETHING".
Indeed.
Cheers, Noel
Miguel: Recently saw Mcguinn on PBS playing his "Signature 370". Aside from his Guitars' wonderful sound, Roger's ability to play flawlessly w/ NO effort has Set the standard for those who desire to play an electric 12-string. I could not agree with you more. Knowing how to play and play WELL, along with adjusting your 'attack' when playing a Ric is paramount. I've found that playing my 360-12 over the last 26 years has made me a better player when I go to pick-up my LP.
I've got alot goin' on!!
It is funny that most "lead-players" (read virtuoso's) stay away from RIC's because they think they are "rhythm guitars" & all the other misplaced stereotypes. Yet bass virtuosos are given instant credibility when they are seen playing a RIC.
When people ask "what kind of bass do you play?" & they hear Rickenbacker, the response is almost always "wow.. you must be good" or "you must know your stuff".
"Rics...demand you do SOMETHING".
It is true, you can not hide on a Rickenbacker. Most of what passes as virtuoso lead playing consists of throwing one's fingers aimlessly on the fretboard trying to find the "right" note.
A RIC won't let you get away with that practise. It is like banging on a grand piano & trying to find a song, during the middle of a performance. The short comings of the musician are quickly exposed by that means.
To clarify, I am refering strictly to performance. During the writing process there is certainly a fair amount of "banging about" & a RIC's is quite a nice instrument to write on.
When people ask "what kind of bass do you play?" & they hear Rickenbacker, the response is almost always "wow.. you must be good" or "you must know your stuff".
"Rics...demand you do SOMETHING".
It is true, you can not hide on a Rickenbacker. Most of what passes as virtuoso lead playing consists of throwing one's fingers aimlessly on the fretboard trying to find the "right" note.
A RIC won't let you get away with that practise. It is like banging on a grand piano & trying to find a song, during the middle of a performance. The short comings of the musician are quickly exposed by that means.
To clarify, I am refering strictly to performance. During the writing process there is certainly a fair amount of "banging about" & a RIC's is quite a nice instrument to write on.
He walked out to face his arch-enemies with his arch-supporters.
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wileyibex
I think we can dismiss a lot of the self-congratulatory mumbo-jumbo about purity and virtue of players. "In my day..." Most guitars just sound the same with all the buzz and overdrive used by present rock acts...A PRS sounds like an Ibanez if you run it through enough stomp boxes and turn it up to 11. Ric's DO have a distinctive sound or sounds, though -- signature sounds that deserve consideration and application in the current music scene. And the craftmanship makes them works of art. But all the other stuff aside, I suspect that there are other, systemic reasons why so few (current) lead guitarists are seen with Ric's. I think the shortcomings rest not so much with the current crop of musicians, but more on RIC. Among them:
(1) Few dealers. Many "up-and-coming" acts just probably haven't seen or tried Ric's; there's not an "active" Ric dealer in my home state, or for 150 miles in any direction. How many young players from around here have ever even SEEN a Ric in a store, much less considered owning one? RIC needs to get deeply involved with building or rebuilding a dealer network, and aggessively improving their dealer and customer relations. There's some horror stories out there, and they need to be put right.
(2) No or insignificant advertizing and promotion of the brand. New musicians just aren't familiar with Ric's. This is coupled with;
(3) No "artist relations" reps from Ric putting guitars in artists' hands; any artist using a Ric bought that guitar him/herself. There should be RIC liasons with recording companies and tour sponsors, seeking to have their guitars "adopted" by new musicians. Is it cost-effective? Yep; the Beatles and Byrds, Petty and REM, are still selling Ric's. Which relates to:
(4) No budget to pay for endorsements by artists.
A necessary component of (3) above. Also, RIC and their players need to consult and work with their custom shop/designers to make running changes/improvements/special orders to accommodate the needs of "special" players. This could lead to the development of new models or new features.
(5) As regards the 12-strings (other than the 660/12), Ric's are an "acquired taste." The 6-saddle bridges make for guaranteed intonation problems. The narrow neck combined with the "eccentric" string spacing makes them quite difficult to play. For about $10/guitar more, RIC could make a giant leap in playability and utility of the 12's and make them more accessible for the average player, just by making the 12-saddle bridge standard and changing the string spacing and placement through a re-cut nut. Why not? Has anybody in the history of the world ever gone BACK from a 12-saddle bridge or from a re-cut, re-spaced nut? I rest my case.
And look, I say this stuff not because I'm down on RIC; far from it -- I love my 360/12 and plan to buy more Ric's. I'm looking for a 620/6 now, then a 660/12...I want RIC to succeed and for more folks to come to know how truly fine their instruments are.
In short, it would take a significant effort and re-focusing by RIC to gain wider acceptance and visibility among younger music musicians and "stars." It appears that RIC, a small-ish company, is pretty much committed to their past as being their future -- concentrating on "V" and "C" series reissues -- and cannot or does not wish to commit significant resources and effort toward getting their instruments used by the MTV-generation recording stars. And that's their choice to make. It's a pity, though, that RIC's are so seldom seen in the hands of performers these days. I'd be the first to offer to help if they wanted to go in the direction of increasing their visibility and market presence.
(1) Few dealers. Many "up-and-coming" acts just probably haven't seen or tried Ric's; there's not an "active" Ric dealer in my home state, or for 150 miles in any direction. How many young players from around here have ever even SEEN a Ric in a store, much less considered owning one? RIC needs to get deeply involved with building or rebuilding a dealer network, and aggessively improving their dealer and customer relations. There's some horror stories out there, and they need to be put right.
(2) No or insignificant advertizing and promotion of the brand. New musicians just aren't familiar with Ric's. This is coupled with;
(3) No "artist relations" reps from Ric putting guitars in artists' hands; any artist using a Ric bought that guitar him/herself. There should be RIC liasons with recording companies and tour sponsors, seeking to have their guitars "adopted" by new musicians. Is it cost-effective? Yep; the Beatles and Byrds, Petty and REM, are still selling Ric's. Which relates to:
(4) No budget to pay for endorsements by artists.
A necessary component of (3) above. Also, RIC and their players need to consult and work with their custom shop/designers to make running changes/improvements/special orders to accommodate the needs of "special" players. This could lead to the development of new models or new features.
(5) As regards the 12-strings (other than the 660/12), Ric's are an "acquired taste." The 6-saddle bridges make for guaranteed intonation problems. The narrow neck combined with the "eccentric" string spacing makes them quite difficult to play. For about $10/guitar more, RIC could make a giant leap in playability and utility of the 12's and make them more accessible for the average player, just by making the 12-saddle bridge standard and changing the string spacing and placement through a re-cut nut. Why not? Has anybody in the history of the world ever gone BACK from a 12-saddle bridge or from a re-cut, re-spaced nut? I rest my case.
And look, I say this stuff not because I'm down on RIC; far from it -- I love my 360/12 and plan to buy more Ric's. I'm looking for a 620/6 now, then a 660/12...I want RIC to succeed and for more folks to come to know how truly fine their instruments are.
In short, it would take a significant effort and re-focusing by RIC to gain wider acceptance and visibility among younger music musicians and "stars." It appears that RIC, a small-ish company, is pretty much committed to their past as being their future -- concentrating on "V" and "C" series reissues -- and cannot or does not wish to commit significant resources and effort toward getting their instruments used by the MTV-generation recording stars. And that's their choice to make. It's a pity, though, that RIC's are so seldom seen in the hands of performers these days. I'd be the first to offer to help if they wanted to go in the direction of increasing their visibility and market presence.
Paul, posts such as yours always amaze me. Rickenbacker is operating at full capacity, sells every instrument it can make, and has a waiting list. They don't need to promote, their instruments do the promoting for them. They don't need wider acceptance, they can't meet the demand as is. They are in an enviable position.
It's unfortunate that there are few in your area, but that's certainly not true in other areas.
It's unfortunate that there are few in your area, but that's certainly not true in other areas.
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wileyibex
Dave, feel free to be amazed at any time; but I fear that you may be in denial.
I gather that "full capacity" and "waiting list" have pretty much always been the case for RIC, even when the entire company was down to only 60 employees. And "Full capacity" doesn't mean much, other than, "We don't have people just standing around doing nothing all day." It doesn't necessarily reflect a thriving company that's gaining sales and market share, taking on new employees, adding production lines, etc., etc. After all, electric guitar sales are declining, world-wide, and have been for several years. Any increased sales or market share for any maker must necessarily come from those of another. And I want to see RIC prosper and increase its share. It's dog-eat-dog out there; in a market economy, the little dogs get eaten by bigger dogs...see Guild, Epiphone, Jackson, Steinberger. Or they disappear. And I don't want to see that happen to RIC. So I simply propose that RIC should move forward on all fronts: reissues, commemorative, and vintage guitars for *my* generation; and getting new artists to adopt Ric's, thus planting the seeds for the next generation of signature models and reissues.
I must say, "Don't need to promote," and "can't meet the demand," sound vainglorious and more than a little suspect. For instance, if you pared a guitar maker down to the point where you had only a handful of workers, and could only produce, say, 300 guitars a year, and you had orders for, mmm, 310, that sounds like it fits the decription for, "Can't meet the demand," and, "Don't need to promote." It also sounds like you'd be on the verge of extinction as a viable commercial entity.
Again, I'm not saying that RIC is failing; just that RIC appear to be comfortable with where they are in the market. I'd wish for RIC to have a higher profile, though, and it was with this in mind that I wrote my post in response to the question of, "Why don't more lead guitarists use Ric's?" I felt and still feel that my response was pertinent.
Here's a case in point: I'm a guitarist -- a lead guitarist. Okay? When I wanted and was looking for a 620 or a 660 recently, I couldn't locate a dealer with one to sell, or even one who had seen one in the past year or so, for hundreds of miles. Most dealers I spoke to had very few Ric's to show or sell, none or few on order, and little expectation for that situation to change. And how many dealers for Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc., do you suppose I'd have to drive past to get to an active, stocking, RIC dealer? Dozens and dozens. I'd also drive past the homes of about 6 million people before I'd arrive at that Ric dealer's door; and that does not appear to me to be an "enviable marketing position" for RIC. Bottom line: I suspect that, "full capacity" argument aside, RIC annually sells fewer guitars of all its models combined than Gibson sells Les Pauls...in one color. Or that Fender sells Strats in one color. I'd like to see that situation change; I'd love to see increased demand and increased production for RIC.
I'd guess that Mr. Hall would wish for the same thing: increased visibility, increased demand, and the opportunity to increase production and thereby profit. And toward that end, I proposed that to get more guitars in the hands of younger musicians, RIC would need to expand its dealer network, actively engage in promotion and artist's relations, and make a couple of minor improvements to the 12-strings. Heresy? I hope not. I'm just wishing the company the very best for the coming years, hoping that they find RIC a healthy and profitable endeavour for generations to come.
Again, I'm not attacking anybody; I have no misgivings with RIC or Ric's. I adore owning a guitar with the legacy mine has; I love playing and owning Ric's and want several more. I'd also love for more guitarists to have the opportunity to try, buy, and use Rickenbackers, and for them to share that joy with others. Still amazed?
I gather that "full capacity" and "waiting list" have pretty much always been the case for RIC, even when the entire company was down to only 60 employees. And "Full capacity" doesn't mean much, other than, "We don't have people just standing around doing nothing all day." It doesn't necessarily reflect a thriving company that's gaining sales and market share, taking on new employees, adding production lines, etc., etc. After all, electric guitar sales are declining, world-wide, and have been for several years. Any increased sales or market share for any maker must necessarily come from those of another. And I want to see RIC prosper and increase its share. It's dog-eat-dog out there; in a market economy, the little dogs get eaten by bigger dogs...see Guild, Epiphone, Jackson, Steinberger. Or they disappear. And I don't want to see that happen to RIC. So I simply propose that RIC should move forward on all fronts: reissues, commemorative, and vintage guitars for *my* generation; and getting new artists to adopt Ric's, thus planting the seeds for the next generation of signature models and reissues.
I must say, "Don't need to promote," and "can't meet the demand," sound vainglorious and more than a little suspect. For instance, if you pared a guitar maker down to the point where you had only a handful of workers, and could only produce, say, 300 guitars a year, and you had orders for, mmm, 310, that sounds like it fits the decription for, "Can't meet the demand," and, "Don't need to promote." It also sounds like you'd be on the verge of extinction as a viable commercial entity.
Again, I'm not saying that RIC is failing; just that RIC appear to be comfortable with where they are in the market. I'd wish for RIC to have a higher profile, though, and it was with this in mind that I wrote my post in response to the question of, "Why don't more lead guitarists use Ric's?" I felt and still feel that my response was pertinent.
Here's a case in point: I'm a guitarist -- a lead guitarist. Okay? When I wanted and was looking for a 620 or a 660 recently, I couldn't locate a dealer with one to sell, or even one who had seen one in the past year or so, for hundreds of miles. Most dealers I spoke to had very few Ric's to show or sell, none or few on order, and little expectation for that situation to change. And how many dealers for Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc., do you suppose I'd have to drive past to get to an active, stocking, RIC dealer? Dozens and dozens. I'd also drive past the homes of about 6 million people before I'd arrive at that Ric dealer's door; and that does not appear to me to be an "enviable marketing position" for RIC. Bottom line: I suspect that, "full capacity" argument aside, RIC annually sells fewer guitars of all its models combined than Gibson sells Les Pauls...in one color. Or that Fender sells Strats in one color. I'd like to see that situation change; I'd love to see increased demand and increased production for RIC.
I'd guess that Mr. Hall would wish for the same thing: increased visibility, increased demand, and the opportunity to increase production and thereby profit. And toward that end, I proposed that to get more guitars in the hands of younger musicians, RIC would need to expand its dealer network, actively engage in promotion and artist's relations, and make a couple of minor improvements to the 12-strings. Heresy? I hope not. I'm just wishing the company the very best for the coming years, hoping that they find RIC a healthy and profitable endeavour for generations to come.
Again, I'm not attacking anybody; I have no misgivings with RIC or Ric's. I adore owning a guitar with the legacy mine has; I love playing and owning Ric's and want several more. I'd also love for more guitarists to have the opportunity to try, buy, and use Rickenbackers, and for them to share that joy with others. Still amazed?