Serious neck problem on a '99 4001v63

basstorius · Post by **basstorius** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 3:24 pm

My dilemma:
As 1999 was coming to a close, I ended up as the high bidder on ebay for a beautiful, mint condition 1999 Mapleglo 4001v63. The bass even had a new set of Pyramid flats on it. The story I got from the seller was that he traded in a vintage Rick bass for another vintage Rick. His trade-in was worth more and the dealer threw the 4001v63 in as part of the deal. Whether or not this story is true is probably immaterial as the bass is not under the original warranty as far as my ownership of it is concerned.

After sending the seller $1150, I received this bass and was thrilled with it. I checked it over thoroughly, I even took it to a local bass dealer I do business with and the general consensus was I got a great bass for a very good price. The neck on the bass was excellent as was/is the rest of the instrument. This bass has nary a scratch. It is truly in mint condition as is the vintage style case that came with it.

Not long after I got it, I took off the Pyramids and put on a set of Rotosound roundwounds. The bass sounded even better in my opinion. I practiced with it several times over the next year and half but never took it out of the house. I never gigged with it because I was in a serious jazz band at the time and my goal was to eventually put together a prog-rock project band. After the jazz band disbanded, I put most of my basses away in a closet except for one I leave out for practicing.

About 3 months ago, I pulled the Rick out with the idea of putting on some new strings and maybe start getting serious about this prog-rock project. I played it a bit and noticed some severe string buzzing. I sighted the neck and noticed a more than slight bow on the bass side and a slight bow on the treble side. In fact the bass side looked to be on a lower plane than the treble side. I adjusted the treble side truss rod and got the treble side of the neck looking good. I adjusted the bass side and got some of the bow out but not enough. I was getting worried about the amount of adjustment I had already made to the bass side truss rod and not getting the results I was looking for. I took the bass to a bass tech I know and he adjusted the truss rod some more. The bass side bow still wasn't flattening out much and he finally told me he's afraid to turn the rod any more with the fear that it might snap.

If you sight the neck, it basically looks twisted, with the bass side dipping down below the plane of the treble side and still with a more than slight bow. I live in Colorado and it's been pretty dry here for the last year and to make matters worse, my music room humidifier burned out last winter. Maybe the dryness had something to do with it but my other basses are in good shape. In fact, the only one I had to adjust was an Alembic - another neck-thru, dual truss rod bass.

Here's the part where I beg your advice. What do I do now? How can you fix a twisted neck on a neck-thru bass. Should I just hang it on the wall and tell people it's a piece of art? I haven't called Rickenbacker yet. I thought I'd post here first to see what my options are.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance for your advice.

gaboik · Post by **gaboik** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 4:31 pm

I'd call Rickenbacker yesterday!!!! That bass should be under warranty!! Another thing to do is to try to contact the person you bought it from to see if they can track down the original bill of sale. I feel for you. I'm taking down my brand new 4001 CS to check it out for warps. You got me shakin' in my boots. That neck can be repaired,not inexpensively, but it can be repaired. I've seen miracles performed on guitars.
Let's see if Mark the MD has a few happy words to say about this.

headbanger · Post by **headbanger** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 5:36 pm

First of all, get those roto's off and change to some generic nickel rounds. This will reduce the overall tension on the neck. Then get your tech to see what he can do. Roto's are VERY high tension and aren't helping you here.

gpatt5762 · Post by **gpatt5762** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 6:09 pm

I'd quit sweating bullets if I was you. Rotosounds are just a high tension string.

I now need to ask you: did you adjust the neck with the strings ON or OFF? I trust you took them off.

If not, do this(as I have done with mine, in email contact with Mark the MD): detune the strings to about a fifth below, leaving them over the bridge. Remove the truss rod cover. undo both nuts till they JUST come finger loose. When you hand turn them on to the point of first friction, take your 1/4" socket driver and torque each nut 1/4 turn. Re-tune the bass to pitch, and check it out. Continue to adjust your truss rods to taste in 1/4 turn increments, and be prepared to invest an evening in the process.

Expect to repeat this several times, as it should take a few to get it to where it doesn't buzz THRU THE AMP.A slight buzz that you can hear only acoustically is acceptable. To expect absolute zero string buzz and .005" action with Roto-sound strings is unrealistic. I still have Roto's on my 4003S and live in sunny, hot Dallas and my bass plays just fine. True, the action is higher than I would prefer, but to get "That Sound" like Entwistle or Squire, You're going to slap the strings down hard WITH YOUR LEFT HAND anyway for basically every note. Watch a Who DVD and see this for yourself.

Moral: take your corrective action one step at a time, and, when changing brand and/or type of string, EXPECT to have to make truss rod adjustments. It's normal.

Let us know how you come out.

Cheers, and Good Luck,
Garry

rickenbrother · Post by **rickenbrother** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 6:13 pm

Actually Rickenbacker will insist you use their strings. Their strings are specifically gauged for how the neck is set up at the RIC factory:
.105 - .075 - .055 - .045 . Using other manufacturers strings may void your warranty. You may want to check with RIC about that. You can probably use the same gauge strings from another manufacturer. But you would have to make up that set yourself from strings sold separately. I've never seen any other manufacturer offer that gauge set. If you wish to use another manufacturers strings get a repairman that is good at setting up Ricks to adjust the trussrods properly. Rotosound strings are usually rough on Rick necks. Im my opinion, there are better sounding strings than Rotosound. The RIC strings are really pretty good. Your neck should be fine if ajusted by a good repair tech.

gpatt5762 · Post by **gpatt5762** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 6:17 pm

A further thought, Jeff:

Over in the "Rickenbacker Luthier" forum, look for a thread entitled, "S-Curved Neck?". This is the one I initiated when I had this very issue with my bass. Mark answers my concerns very directly. You should find its words reassuring.

Cheers,
Garry

gpatt5762 · Post by **gpatt5762** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 6:20 pm

Jeff: You can do this yourself, if I can. And if you want to use Rotosound, USE 'EM!

I have faith in you.

Garry

gaboik · Post by **gaboik** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 4:19 am

Guys, didn't Rickenbacker change their truss rods/thickness of the neck in order for the user to use any strings he wishes to? The theory that Rotosounds have more tension is a non issue. I've been using Rotosounds on my Rick basses since 1975. I have 5 4001s, and they all have Rotosounds on them. I even have Rotosounds on my 71 4001s, and that bass is of the skinny neck style with no skunk stripe. I cannot accept the fact that after going from 4001 (old truss rod system not designed for round wound) to 4003 (use any string you want) one can say to take the Rotosounds off.

craigv · Post by **craigv** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:18 am

Charlie, that's exactly why they changed the trussrod assembly. I doubt Ric would try to deny a warranty claim because of non-OEM strings.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:25 am

I think that, seeing as this is only a couple years old, with the newer truss rods in it, is that the neck simply needs a good setup by someone who knows what they are doing.The type of strings should not be an issue.

basstorius · Post by **basstorius** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 10:35 am

Thanks for the responses. To answer the question about how I and then the bass tech adjusted the neck...I did it by the book - the Rickenbacker owners manual that came with the bass. It said to loosen the strings and move them out of the nut slot. The bass tech loosened them but did not move them out of the nut slot. He did however, wait 15-20 mins between each adjustment.

I did call Rickenbacker. Contrary to what I've been led to believe, I was told they do not do out of warranty repairs (unless you're Paul McCartney or Chris Squire I guess). I was given the names of a couple of people in the LA area they recommend for repairs; Don Butler and Steve Soest. I was able to talk with Don Butler and he told me it would probably need a heat treatment. I've always had my doubts about heat treatments but he say they are pretty reliable. Cost for the treatment would be about $45. Round trip shipping would cost about $60 so it looks like I could get this mess fix for just over $100. I'm concerned that the neck may seem OK in California but revert back in Colorado. Does anybody know of a reputable luthier in Colorado that might be able to fix this?

BTW, I did find out from Rickenbacker that the original owner never mailed in the warranty card. Hmm...

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:00 pm

BTW, I did find out from Rickenbacker that the original owner never mailed in the warranty card. Hmm...

...Or, he bought it at Guitar Center, where they are famous for "misplacing" warranty cards,hence, he never had one to mail in to begin with.

gaboik · Post by **gaboik** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:39 pm

Don, Guitar Center is like drag racing with satan.
they are the worst when it comes to matching cases, warranty card, or locating the parts that came with the guitar cases from factory.

rick12dr · Post by **rick12dr** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 3:12 pm

Guitar Center is like drag racing with satan..

WOW! best line I've heard in a long time, and so true...

basstorius · Post by **basstorius** » Fri Sep 06, 2002 12:45 pm

An update - I found someone in Denver who feels confident he can get the neck back in shape. He hasn't seen it yet but I'll be taking it up there in a couple of weeks. He's the luthier for Surine Basses. All Surine basses are neckthough/dual trussrod so he's very familiar with the problems associated with this type of neck. I'll let you know in a couple of weeks what he has to say about it after he sees it.