Lemon Oil

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:24 am

Yes they are real gushers Paul.

These oleagenous salesmen were not soothing as I expected them to be.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:10 pm

Sorry to be late to this party, but I believe you're overlooking something very important: Lemon oil products for wood don't contain oil extracted from lemon rind or peel. They contain oil extracted from lemongrass. And it's there for the aroma, not for cleaning purposes.

I'm mentioning this only because lemongrass oil is known to be a sensitizer, and Peter says his eyes smart after oiling the fretboard. And if the lemongrass is the culprit, it will only get worse, as all sensitizers do.

Even Hope's Pure Lemon Oil, which doesn't contain toxic additives, has "light paraffin petroleum oil & lemon grass oil" listed as the ingredients.

I use Roche-Thomas Premium Bore Oil.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:36 am

Dave: Does the bore oil you have contain petroleum distillates?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:50 am

Interesting fact. I did get into a couple of MSDSs for lemon oil type polishes, in search of info on the type of petroleum distillate, and recall seeing lemon rind in them, but not lemongrass.

"Natural" is not always good for you!

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:03 am

Peter, the bottle is at a neighbor's right now and they're not home, so I don't know what the bottle says. I'll find out later. But I'd say yes, because I'm pretty sure it's not a vegetable oil. Even nontoxic, edible mineral oil is a petroleum distillate. If you're reacting to a petroleum distillate, you'd have to be able to pin down which one.

I'm just suggesting that your problem might be the lemongrass oil extract, not the petroleum products. Especially if you've used it before without a problem and now you're reacting. That's what a sensitizer will do, get worse with repeated exposure.

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:09 am

Paul, it's certainly possible that some use lemon rind, I haven't looked at any MSDS, but I have looked at product labels such as Hope's. And you certainly know more than I about the possible toxicity of the chemicals in these products. I just didn't want Peter to overlook the possibilty that it's something no one had brought up yet.

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:28 am

Absolutely, Dave, and no p*****g contest implied or intended.

Interesting about the lemon grass, BTW. I've never encountered it anywhere but in health food stores, where they grow it in the window, and offer the juice to drink. (Highest amount of something supposedly healthy in the known universe, etc.)

A story about sensitizers: Many products which I commonly work with are skin sensitizers. About 15 years ago, I was molding a part from transparent urethane and poured about 10 pounds of the catalyzed resin in one day. Driving home from my office, I began to feel a itching and burning on my face and scalp. I got home and showered.

The next morning, I had a severe dermatological reaction which took two weeks to heal with the aid of some cortisone shots.

Following this reaction, I never had another one, although I had to use the product on several other occasions, and it is still made.

Last semester, a group of my students contracted the same rash from the same material. (Can't avoid the toxicity issue when working with urethanes; just have to take precautions, which are gone over thoroughly with the students at semester's beginning.) The material was used by four different classes of about 15 students each.

It was interesting to observe that one student contracted the rash, and within five days, seven out of ten students in the same class had contracted it, too, despite precautions and warnings. Six of the seven students were Asian, and the one Caucasian student has a derm history. The other two students (Caucasian, including one very blonde female) had no problems.

This semester, we are using the same material, and there are seventy students using it this time, with nary a problem.

Confusing, huh? Makes me suspect that there's a somatic component here, related to hysteria...

And my own sensitization has proceeded from extreme anaphylactic reaction to immunity.

Re: Mineral oil: Toxicity is dependent upon level of refinement. Less refined=more volatile elements=more toxic.

britye · Post by **britye** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:56 am

I worked as a painter for about 16 years before I finally called it quits. Even with the best safety precautions taken ( there were great improvements in those 16 years)It was taking it's toll on me. When I moved into the management side of the industry I found out that even limited exposure in the shop area ie. QC'ing a job or chatting with a body man about some hidden damage found or even just a stroll thru the shop had a negative affect on my body and that was it, 3 more years in management and I had to quit and do something else, The funny thing is I loved the actual prep and refinishing part, we did a lot of show cars and restoration work and it was a joy to see something transform from a raw ugly platform to a thing of exquisite beauty by putting all of our hearts into it and feeling the various heartaches that inevitably occur when undertaking such a project melt away as you watch the beaming customer take delivery. Oh and the money was decent too BTW my body has purged all the **** it absorbed during those years and the Doc say's I'm healthy as a horse, whatever that means. I can't paint your car, but I can sell you a house LOL!!

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:47 am

I've been in the prototype building business since 1970, and for some odd reason (good or bad genes), it has not taken its toll on me. The incident which I describe above is the only one I ever suffered.

I scuba dive and get a good physical on an annual basis, including a pulmonary function test. I typically score 120% for my age group. My blood workups come back normal, and I too am healthy as a horse.

So I am sure that different people react different ways.

britye · Post by **britye** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:44 pm

Paul, There's a guy who ended up working at the GM Tech Center in Warren Mi he headed up a team that was trying to solve the clear coat peeling issues GM had with the Corvette after the change of body style and material that the car was made of this, was around 1984 85. His name is also Brian and he worked at this Vette shop as a painter for a number of years before me. He was telling me it was the atomized spray that caused his vision to good bad and that once you get "sensitized" to isocynate catalysts you better not even take a whiff of the stuff. I believe with the equipment that's available today and with the best of precautions taken the risks are minimal. Of course you look like a haz mat tech in the process dragging you fresh air supplied hose around the car along with air hose and gun. I suppose it makes no differance whether you're spraying a car or a guitar body you have to suit up. BTW if I ever need any refinsh work on any of my guitars or future guitars, you'll be the guy. I really enjoy your technical insights. I really learn a lot as I'm not a techie but I'm tryin

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:53 pm

I remember those awful water-based clearcoats. The consumers were the guinea pigs on those GM cars.

I do not suit up. When we painted show cars, it was in a state-of-the-art water wash downdraft booth. I have a backdraft booth now, but seldom spray more than six ounces at a time to do a guitar. I do wear a respirator with organic and dust cartridges. You do not want to mess with isocyanates. Next week, I do my annual three day hazmat training, which is always an eye-opener. The remedies for isocyanate spills...well, tyou don't want to know, as it involves the National Guard, bulldozers, high pressure hoses and moonsuits.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:07 am

Paul: Ouch, some students really are finished with their projects!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:23 pm

I have heard from some people in the past who repair guitars locally that lemon oil actually dries out the wood and you should be using *name your brand of fingerboard mositurizer here*. I've used lemon oil and haven't seen that it dries a fingerboard out myself. Any comments?

jingle_jangle · Post by **jingle_jangle** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:32 pm

Well, Greg, without some sort of documentary evidence, I can't agree or disagree. Over the ten or so years that I've been using it regularly, I have seen no evidence of this. But I'd be interested to see any real indication outside of second-hand or rumors.

Everybody benefits from accurate information.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:49 am

I have located a bore oil sold by Roche-Thomas. It does not have the odor of lemon-oil or some other bore oils. Time will tell.