Hand Versus Buffer Polishing
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Hand Versus Buffer Polishing
Paul: I have always waxed and polished my instruments by hand and the outcome has always been rewarding. When do you go beyond the hand buffing and move to a buffing machine?
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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jingle_jangle
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Peter, there's an old saying about so-called "hand buffing": No matter which machine you start out with, you always end up finishing it by hand.
The last step in any guitar refin or restoration that I do, is a machine and then a hand buff.
I use a buffing pad to take out #2000 grit wetsanding scratches. #2000 grit is used to take out #1500 grit sandscratches, and #1500 is used to take out the #1000 grit sandscratches. Nope, not ad infinitum... I start with #1000 when I'm color sanding a freshly-catalyzed conversion varnish finish.
How do you know how to go about getting rid of scratches?
If you have a bit of faint scratch or so-called "halo-ing" on the surface of a thicker protective coating like conversion varnish, depending upon how deep it is, it can be rubbed out with Scratch-X (less than .0015" or fairly shallow)or Perfect-It III compound, followed by Scratch-X (.0015-.003", or slightly deeper than above). At the point where compounds can't take out a scratch (this would be a scratch more than about .1mm or about .003"), I will usually wetsand the scratched area with #2000 and then machine-buff out the wetsand scratches using Perfect-it III on a foam pad, followed by a good hand buff with Scratch-X and a coat of Zymol. Scratches through the varnish must be filled and sanded back before buffing.
Next thing to consider is surface area. If you have a large area (say, the entire back of a guitar) which is dull or has just been sanded with #2000, hand buffing could be done, but is very time consuming and exhausting with less than grand results. Machine buffing with a thick foam pad running at about 850 RPM, and moistened with Perfect-It III, takes care of the back in short order. Then it's Scratch-X (foam pad again), sprayed with a mist of a little bit of water to keep things cool, and on to a wipedown with a diaper and some Zymol.
In general, an owner should not machine-buff. It takes some time to learn the ins and outs and when it's your Rick at stake, go slowly and safely on the small stuff (by hand) and the clearcoat is dull and needs a total rejuvenation, take it to a pro.
That having been said, a dull JG Rickenbacker (for example, without any deep scratches or peels, can be brought back to life in a few hours with Scratch-X and a CSCC.
This is, as you say, Peter, rewarding to say the least.
The last step in any guitar refin or restoration that I do, is a machine and then a hand buff.
I use a buffing pad to take out #2000 grit wetsanding scratches. #2000 grit is used to take out #1500 grit sandscratches, and #1500 is used to take out the #1000 grit sandscratches. Nope, not ad infinitum... I start with #1000 when I'm color sanding a freshly-catalyzed conversion varnish finish.
How do you know how to go about getting rid of scratches?
If you have a bit of faint scratch or so-called "halo-ing" on the surface of a thicker protective coating like conversion varnish, depending upon how deep it is, it can be rubbed out with Scratch-X (less than .0015" or fairly shallow)or Perfect-It III compound, followed by Scratch-X (.0015-.003", or slightly deeper than above). At the point where compounds can't take out a scratch (this would be a scratch more than about .1mm or about .003"), I will usually wetsand the scratched area with #2000 and then machine-buff out the wetsand scratches using Perfect-it III on a foam pad, followed by a good hand buff with Scratch-X and a coat of Zymol. Scratches through the varnish must be filled and sanded back before buffing.
Next thing to consider is surface area. If you have a large area (say, the entire back of a guitar) which is dull or has just been sanded with #2000, hand buffing could be done, but is very time consuming and exhausting with less than grand results. Machine buffing with a thick foam pad running at about 850 RPM, and moistened with Perfect-It III, takes care of the back in short order. Then it's Scratch-X (foam pad again), sprayed with a mist of a little bit of water to keep things cool, and on to a wipedown with a diaper and some Zymol.
In general, an owner should not machine-buff. It takes some time to learn the ins and outs and when it's your Rick at stake, go slowly and safely on the small stuff (by hand) and the clearcoat is dull and needs a total rejuvenation, take it to a pro.
That having been said, a dull JG Rickenbacker (for example, without any deep scratches or peels, can be brought back to life in a few hours with Scratch-X and a CSCC.
This is, as you say, Peter, rewarding to say the least.
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut
Paul: Thanks for this great detail. I seems that I have only begun to scratch the surface when it comes to polishing.
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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This relates to something I learned only recently. But I'm sure Paul knows all about it already.
I didn't realize that the grit number on sandpaper and other abrasives can be quite different elsewhere than the American scale (called CAMI) I'm used to. Outside the US, you'll generally see the grit prefixed with a "P" (signifying the FEPA system), as in P800 sandpaper. The coarseness is about the same between the two up to 180 but then the two systems diverge dramatically. CAMI 600 is almost 35% finer than FEPA P600, for instance.This could make a huge difference in a fine finish situation.
This is important because the big DIY stores are filled with U.S. and imported abrasive goods and, at least around here, they stack the stuff together by number, no matter the "P".
To make it worse, companies like 3M are importing sandpaper in some grades from SIA (Swiss Industrial Abrasive), and while it's labeled correctly, consumers like me aren't always aware of the difference.
I didn't realize that the grit number on sandpaper and other abrasives can be quite different elsewhere than the American scale (called CAMI) I'm used to. Outside the US, you'll generally see the grit prefixed with a "P" (signifying the FEPA system), as in P800 sandpaper. The coarseness is about the same between the two up to 180 but then the two systems diverge dramatically. CAMI 600 is almost 35% finer than FEPA P600, for instance.This could make a huge difference in a fine finish situation.
This is important because the big DIY stores are filled with U.S. and imported abrasive goods and, at least around here, they stack the stuff together by number, no matter the "P".
To make it worse, companies like 3M are importing sandpaper in some grades from SIA (Swiss Industrial Abrasive), and while it's labeled correctly, consumers like me aren't always aware of the difference.
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jingle_jangle
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In which case, after a bit of experience, you'll learn that your fingers don't lie. If it feels rougher, then...
I learned this about eight years ago when my supplier (Senik Paints in Costa Mesa, I believe, at the time) pointed out to me that the P600 I was buying was not the same as the stuff I'd bought previously. And it was closer to 500. Here's a great link that explains it:
http://www.sizes.com/tools/sandpaper.htm
I stick to 3M abrasives in everything. I'd switch to German stuff, but I don't want to get used to it and have my supply run short or prices to get nuts. But friends who use it say that it lasts longer in wet sanding.
Peter, I think you have both your opening questions and closing zingers written BEFORE you post a topic suggestion...
I learned this about eight years ago when my supplier (Senik Paints in Costa Mesa, I believe, at the time) pointed out to me that the P600 I was buying was not the same as the stuff I'd bought previously. And it was closer to 500. Here's a great link that explains it:
http://www.sizes.com/tools/sandpaper.htm
I stick to 3M abrasives in everything. I'd switch to German stuff, but I don't want to get used to it and have my supply run short or prices to get nuts. But friends who use it say that it lasts longer in wet sanding.
Peter, I think you have both your opening questions and closing zingers written BEFORE you post a topic suggestion...
“I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
― Kurt Vonnegut