Unusual NS model?

tony_d · Post by **tony_d** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:14 pm

Hi Folks,

I'm new to this forum, and joined because I have a strong interest in the technicalities of guitars including "string-through" pickups.

I play lap steel, among other things, and recently purchased a model advertised as an NS. Superficially it looks like what I think of as a typical NS, pressed steel body, two tone black-grey shiny enamel finish, tone and volume controls and decal style "Rickenbacher" headstock badge.

However, it also has a serial number, E 3---, and a 1 1/2" non-adjustable pickup. The resistance across the output jack is less than 1.9K ohm, and the coil wire, where visible through the potting wax, looks very thick compared with modern wire. The pickup end plate has ridges running in the string direction, and the pole pieces aren't visible.

The pickup looks original, because, as far as I can tell, the colour scheme is an exact match to the body.

Does anyone have any insights into the possible history of this guitar? I'm wondering, for example if it early postwar production using prewar parts. Aren't the low resistance pickups fairly early production?

I have virtually no experience with horseshoe pickups, but the tone, output and overdrive characteristics of this one seem outstanding to me.

Thanks for your help.

Tony D

rshatz · Post by **rshatz** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:02 pm

Tony,
It's a prewar model 59. The black/grey finish was produced from 1939-43, when all Rick production stopped.

tony_d · Post by **tony_d** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:49 pm

Thanks Richard.

Now I'm feeling really pleased. I bought it from Elderly Instruments a week ago as an NS, and those guys don't often make mistakes. What made me think it was postwar was the decal badge rather than the metal ones that I (with my little and recently acquired knowledge) had associated with 59s.

Tony D

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:50 am

Welcome Tony. How about a couple of nice photos of this prewar model 59? I would also like to hear your comments about its tone.

rshatz · Post by **rshatz** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:42 am

You and Elderly were correct in assuming your steel was made after the war because of the decal logo. All the prewar 59s that I've seen had the metal plate logo. The E serial number and 1.5" magnet confirms the instrument was manufactured before WW2. However, there were a lot of prewar parts that went into the earliest postwar instruments. The ones made with prewar parts and sold after the war are known as transitional models. Most of these were stuffed with newspaper from which the production date can be closely approximated. If you ever get inside, see if you can find a date on the newspaper. Keep us posted.
I've never seen a transitional model 59.

tony_d · Post by **tony_d** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:49 pm

Thanks Peter and Richard,

I'm new to the forum platform, so I'm not sure how to post pics. Do I just add them as attachments, and is there a size limit? I've just taken a few and they run about 750K each as taken.

The tone is metallic, and doing a tap test, I don't think this one has any stuffing. I should point out that I'm interested in lap steel for blues rather than traditional country or hawaiian applications, so having something that approaches a old brass national reso (which I also own) is fine with me. Extreme applications might be Kelly Joe Phelps at one end and George Thorogood at the other.

I find it very difficult to convey tonal properties, but some of the obvious things are:

Fairly high output.

Very good string to string balance. The wound third sounds exactly the same volume as the plain second to me. Being an acoustic guitarist, unbalanced output in electrics really bugs me.

Very good tonal complexity. I think it is probably the best sounding pickup I have, cf a National Chicagoan, a good Blade tele pickup, Seymour Duncan Jazz pickups and a whole raft of homemade pickups.

It is also by far the quietist pickup I have, being almost silent for both mains hum and fluoro light "rattle".

I honestly haven't found anything to be critical of yet in its tone. I play through a Fender Blues Deluxe amp, which is very bassy, and many pickups generate a lot of undesirable bass "boom", this one doesn't, and neither does it screech in the high registers. It doesn't have the sustain of eg my tele, but for what I play, more punch and less sustain isn't necessarily a disadvantage, and it might anyway be related to the compressive quality of the tele pickup rather than the construction of the Ric.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:41 pm

Tony: If you send them to me for now I will post them so that we can get the discussion going.

Should you wish to do this on your own, the photos have to be no more than 36K (you will need to compress them) and 500 X 500 pixels. After you are sure that these criteria have been met, just click on upload attachment below and then the browse button. The rest is quite straightforward.

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:38 pm

Thanks for sending in photos, Tony. This is most interesting.

tony_d · Post by **tony_d** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:29 pm

Thanks for posting the pics - they came out well.

I pulled the pickup out and found the newspaper stuffing. The date was 25 Jan 1942. The decal and newspaper date strike me as interesting, as it suggests that the guitar was completed, except for the decal, then sat in a warehouse until after the war.

Any Comments?

admin · Post by **admin** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:40 pm

A reasonable hypothesis Tony, however, I am wondering why the factory would put in the newspaper. Perhaps it actually went out the door before the war and the newspaper was put there by the first owner. In either case it would seem helpful in dating the instrument, unless someone saved old newspapers.

I am pleased to hear it has a nice tone as the 1 1/2 inch pickup is noted for this.

One day I would like to get a lapsteel. Your comments and Richard's posts have me eager to hear one of these instruments.

rshatz · Post by **rshatz** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:09 pm

The factory stuffed the model 59, Silver Hawaiian and NS models with newspaper to decrease resonance that caused feedback.

tony_d · Post by **tony_d** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:19 pm

Richard,

Do you have an opinion on the relationship between the prewar newspaper and the postwar decal? My theory is outlined above.

When did the US come into WW II?

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:25 am

I like your theory Tony. Many things were put on hold during WWII. Thanks for the information on the newspapers Richard.

heididog · Post by **heididog** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:55 am

Just curious what the differences between a model 59 and an NS would be. This one looks very similar to the NS I posted a while back (but 1949 in its stuffing). Tony, do you mind me asking around about how much Elderly sold it for?

rshatz · Post by **rshatz** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:04 am

Tony,
It is possible that decals were produced prior to WW2, but I can't find any specific documentation of this. The decal logo on your photos has holes that correspond to the positions of the mounting screws of the metal logo plates. I have never seen a true postwar NS with these holes, although they might be covered by an intact decal.
The U.S. entered WW2 12/7/41. Rickenbacher is said to have completely stopped guitar production by early 1943. So my guess is that it was made and sold shortly after the newspaper date, 1942.

Heididog,
The only real difference between the 59 and the 1949 S would be the pickup. The prewar pickups had 1.5" magnets without height adjustment. The postwar pickups on the model S had 1.25" and were height adjustable.