Distortion, dynamics, and mids

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:40 am

I love distortion on bass ... either playing or listening ... that is why I like John Wetton, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, and similar bass players ...

but to much distortion can sound bad ... for me the right amount is when I pluck gently it still sounds sweet and bassy ... when my attack is moderate then a little distortion becomes evident and when I whack it aggressively it is noticeably distorted ...

That way I get dynamics in volume and distortion and tone according to how hard I play ...

Also sometimes to get more distortion it is better to add more mids rather than adding more gain or more distortion ... this makes the bass punch through more...

These days I use the line 6 bass pod 1st version ... I have tried several stomp boxes and sans amp things and I liked several of those but prefer the pod ... I am thinking of the the pod live xt model ...

ric620 · Post by **ric620** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:01 am

Jeff, I have both the guitar and bass versions of the POD XTlive and I'm very impressed.

I'm starting to move toward a bass pod/power amp setup for my bass rig.

ricosound · Post by **ricosound** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:22 am

Jeff, this is a fresh new approach for you. Usually you are responding to or defending yourself to others, or espousing the virtues of 5 string conversions. I agree on the delicate balance of using distortion on bass. Too much and it just sounds muddy. I, as stated previously, use the Sansamp stomp box for this, with the gain set to about 2:00 o'clock. Using a Ric at this setting, causes the gradual even order breakup you describe. The POD is great if you use all the cabinet/amp modeling. I however usually go direct and only use a dry amp sound for personal stage reinforcement. The tone of the Sansamp is great, but it lacks other features necessitating an outboard tuner and compressor at a minimum. If the POD setup and programming weren’t so daunting, it seems like it would be very handy. Some day I may take the time to fiddle with one at GC, but I am lazy about trying to learn new gadgets.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:33 am

ya ... I am sometimes employing hyperbolic rhetoric to illustrate a point ... and sometimes I go a little overboard ... hey you always know where I stand ... but I am a tone freak ... it is my opinion that you can play all the right notes but if the volume and tone and distortion levels are wrong then it still sucks ... I think small levels of distortion are necessary for guitar and bass ... there are many ways to achieve that ... I jammed with a band recently and the guitarist had a big rackmounted series of effects and preamps that he ran into 2 amps ... but the sound sucked ... I told him to get rid of all the stuff and start over ... he had too much distortion and too much treble ... and not enough mids or lows and no clean sound at all ...

Steve Cooper was over at my house recently and he played through my Rig and he said do you use that much distortion all the time? ... yep I do ... but actually it is less distortion than I used to use ... I turned down the gain and distortion and turned up the mids and it growls more and cuts through better ... plus playing live some of the distortion gets lost in the mix with drums and guitars and when I mike it into a big PA the subs add a lot of low end that masks distortion as well ...

iamthebassman · Post by **iamthebassman** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:36 am

For years I used a Blue Tube pedal for a bit of overdrive, now a SansAmp BDDI, and for full-on distortion, an MXR M-80.

frode · Post by **frode** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:24 am

Do it like Lemmy. Turn the volum to ten, and almost no bass.

phlemmy · Post by **phlemmy** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:40 am

Amen Frode!

david_schwab · Post by **david_schwab** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:23 am

I love distorted bass too. Jack Bruce was my first big influence (well right after Sir Paul, but Jack got me into more adventurous playing). Tim Bogart got a great distorted sound on the Beck, Bogart, Appice album. When I first started playing I used an old Maestro Fuzz Tone (like the one on Satisfaction). The guitar player in my first band hated that!

I also use a Blue Tube pedal, but it's usually more distortion than over drive... my bass has a very hot signal, and by the time you turn the gain up on the Blue Tube to get unity gain, it's way past over drive! I used to use a 12AU7 tube in it, which is much lower gain than the 12AX7 it comes with. Gets more burp than fuzz that way.

Squire and Wetton are both favorites of mine, in both playing and tone. I think I lean more towards Wetton myself. In both cases they used fuzz, and not over drive or amp distortion, even though they played through Marshall and Hi-Watt amps, which I'm sure broke up somewhat.

Squire used the Maestro Bass Brassmater fuzz, which could blend clean and fuzz, and the fuzz was mostly just high end, with some slight octave doubling due to a bridge rectifier in the circuit. Real interesting fuzz. I had one many years ago. Also keep in mind that Squire's bass is stereo, so he ran through two amps, and most likely had the fuzz on the bridge pickup. I saw him use an SVT and a Sunn guitar amp live.

I've read Wetton used a Foxx Fuzz/Wah pedal, although I remember also reading he had some custom made "double sound" fuzz. Wetton also clobbers the strings. You can get a good heavy sound like that even without distortion just by plucking real hard (like on Larks Tongues, Part II). I always liked the way he went from manic fuzz to pure deep bass for the mellow songs. Fripp too. Boy, that was a band!

Jeff you make a good point about midrange. Mids are important! I see too many bass players using those awful mid notch switches... it might sound good sitting in front of your amp playing by your self (and to me it doesn't)... but it sucks all the life out of the bass! I usually leave my bass and treble pretty flat and boost the mids quite a bit. (In actuality my amp does not have shelving bass/treb controls... just a 7 band EQ. But my bass has active bass/treb).

I also think a little distortion can add some nice harmonics, but I also like very clean hi-fi sound from my bass (a la Stanley Clarke, but with more mids). Then I can dirty it up as needed. I pretty much say no to dynamics... My signal is quite compressed.

It all depends on what you play... for instance this weekend I'm doing a concert with some people playing a bunch of Broadway show tunes... you wont find a hint of distortion there!

For my own music I often employ various amounts of distortion, using everything from home made pedals to a Big Muff. One of my favorite distortion devices is the QuadraFuzz. Everyone should check out one of these for bass. I use the software version all the time. I'm going to get the hardware version soon... it's quite amazing!

http://www.paia.com/quadrafz.htm

rhampshire · Post by **rhampshire** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:13 am

70's SVT and 8x10 (or two!) that sounds like it's about to explode for me, thanks!

wim · Post by **wim** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:51 am

When I still had my Marshall Super bass 100 the best thing to do was volume : 10

beats 100.000 pods

david_schwab · Post by **david_schwab** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:56 am

Yeah, a tube amp on 10 sounds great... but what if you need to play at a more reasonable volume?

wim · Post by **wim** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:08 am

Peter recommends the THD hotplate

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:13 am

most amps don't actually sound good at 10 ... but with distortion and amp modelers you can get an overdriven, distorted, high gain sound without reaching an uncomfortable decibel level ...

When I model amps and make distorted patches on the line 6 bass pod I usually have the volume and gain in the 3-5 range ... the same goes for my ampeg b2r ... I just want to add distortion ... not let it take over ...

david_schwab · Post by **david_schwab** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:21 am

That's right Jeff. I see a lot of guitar plays make the mistake of using way too much gain, and them wonder why their sound if so thin!

Jimmy Page used to use relatively clean sounds, but you wouldn't think so because they sound so heavy.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:12 pm

yep you want growl ... not insane noise ...