Vox Amplifiers: China Versus England Built
Moderator: jingle_jangle
Vox Amplifiers: China Versus England Built
Charlie: Perhaps it is too early to make an informed opinion on Vox amplifiers made in China. Nonetheless, I am curious what you may have seen on the bench or heard about the tonality and quality control of the recently made China AC-30 type compared to those made in England?
Life, as with music, often requires one to let go of the melody and listen to the rhythm
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In general, not as good, due to cheaper components. It seems that almost everyone is going to China now. They use very cheap resistors, capacitors and transformers. The result is cheesy sound. Unless VOX is providing them with high quality parts, I tend to think these will never be as good us UK made VOXs.
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soundmasterg
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I've heard that they sound good, but the build quality and serviceability is terrible. I like some of the new features that they added to them like reverb, trem, switchable power levels, etc., but if they're hard to work on and don't work reliably, then I'll be sticking with my UK made Korg AC30 myself.
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soundmasterg
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Even the Korg reissue AC30's wouldn't be as easy to mod as an old Fender or Marshall, due to the PCB construction and the board mounted pots, jacks, and preamp sockets. I haven't seen a new Chinese made one, but I've heard they are even worse with the internal layout, and use molex connectors among other things. Replacing resistors and caps might be possible without too much trouble, but it all depends on how much room they allowed in the board. Personally, I'd probably just build or have built whatever you're looking for. There are lots of excellant kits out there nowadays.
I'd really prefer an old Fender, but if I can't find one at a decent price I might try a new Vox. I'm shopping tomorrow for the amp. I know where there is a near perfect Super Reverb for $1000 Cdn, but I can't afford that much. I'm mainly a bass player.
Incredible sounding amp! Used to belong to a friend who I played with for many years. It's my favorite amp of everything I've ever heard!
Incredible sounding amp! Used to belong to a friend who I played with for many years. It's my favorite amp of everything I've ever heard!
Plus five minus five!
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soundmasterg
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soundmasterg
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I've got no problems at all with my AC30-CC1, (purchased in Australia) but then again I don't have an English-built one to compare it to.
Two questions, if I may, Charlie:
1) How would one go about establishing the 'cheapness' of the componentry?
2) Would it be worth considering replacement of 'critical' components and what might they be?
Just in passing, they are selling like crazy over here - probably more for the lounge room players than 'giggers'.
Two questions, if I may, Charlie:
1) How would one go about establishing the 'cheapness' of the componentry?
2) Would it be worth considering replacement of 'critical' components and what might they be?
Just in passing, they are selling like crazy over here - probably more for the lounge room players than 'giggers'.
"Never eat more than you can lift." - Mr. Moon
Howard
Cheapness:
1. Very small resistors, like Fender, Marshall, Vox and others use. Normally, the smallest power rating you would see in a point-to-point wired amp was 1/2 watt. Now with circuit boards you are seeing 1/4 watt and even 1/8 watt. These things sound horrible, are made of carbon film which is very fragile and tends to burn up if overloaded.
2. The use of printed circuit boards is also very cheesy in guitar amps. Most die-hards want an amp that will last for 20+ years. The ones with PCBs have problems with board delamination, cold solder joints, broken solder joints due to vibration. Plus it is a royal pain to replace parts on circuit boards, if you use too much heat on a trace, it will lift up off the board. Also some amps and many effects now use surface mount components which are very hard to remove and install unless you have special equipment.
3. Small green or blue "chicklett" capacitors, like Marshall and Fender use. These things also sound like **** and whenever I rebuild Marshall, I always replace them with 715 SBE Orange Drops or Illinois Cap ICMWR caps which sound bigger and have better dynamics.
4. Small transformers. Older amps used more iron in the output and power stages. Also, Fender and other companies use a power supply choke, besides filter caps to reduce hum and smooth out the AC.
5. Any amp where the tube sockets are soldered to the PCB, especially the output tubes. These amps are designed to fail and will.
Critical Components
Replacing critcal components means using Japanese Riken resistors which are the finest sounding carbon comps available or NOS Allen Bradley. Hard to find and expensive, use in the signal path. These are plate resistors off pin 1 and pin 6 on the 12AX7s. Use larger wattage resistors if possible.
Replace signal and coupling caps with Illinois, Sprague or SBE capacitors. Sometimes this is hard to do because of lead spacing and clearance, but it does help make the amp sound better.
Replace the awful sounding 1N4007 power supply diodes with HEXFRED fast switching diodes. This smooths out the sound and makes it sound almost like a tube rectifier.
Replace the output transformer with something better and bigger from Mercury Magnetics or the like.
Replace the stock speakers with something good like Weber, Tone Tubby, Eminence, VOX, etc.
Install NOS US or Euro tubes is always a plus.
Some Fender amps have custom turret boards to make them wired just like the old hand wired.
The reason you are seeing this is to save labor costs and keep product selling. Most players do not want to spend $2000+ for a hand made amp. But vintage ones are still bargains to be had.
The above fixes will help some, but why not just go out and buy a nice hand made boutique or vintage amp and stop screwing around.
Cheapness:
1. Very small resistors, like Fender, Marshall, Vox and others use. Normally, the smallest power rating you would see in a point-to-point wired amp was 1/2 watt. Now with circuit boards you are seeing 1/4 watt and even 1/8 watt. These things sound horrible, are made of carbon film which is very fragile and tends to burn up if overloaded.
2. The use of printed circuit boards is also very cheesy in guitar amps. Most die-hards want an amp that will last for 20+ years. The ones with PCBs have problems with board delamination, cold solder joints, broken solder joints due to vibration. Plus it is a royal pain to replace parts on circuit boards, if you use too much heat on a trace, it will lift up off the board. Also some amps and many effects now use surface mount components which are very hard to remove and install unless you have special equipment.
3. Small green or blue "chicklett" capacitors, like Marshall and Fender use. These things also sound like **** and whenever I rebuild Marshall, I always replace them with 715 SBE Orange Drops or Illinois Cap ICMWR caps which sound bigger and have better dynamics.
4. Small transformers. Older amps used more iron in the output and power stages. Also, Fender and other companies use a power supply choke, besides filter caps to reduce hum and smooth out the AC.
5. Any amp where the tube sockets are soldered to the PCB, especially the output tubes. These amps are designed to fail and will.
Critical Components
Replacing critcal components means using Japanese Riken resistors which are the finest sounding carbon comps available or NOS Allen Bradley. Hard to find and expensive, use in the signal path. These are plate resistors off pin 1 and pin 6 on the 12AX7s. Use larger wattage resistors if possible.
Replace signal and coupling caps with Illinois, Sprague or SBE capacitors. Sometimes this is hard to do because of lead spacing and clearance, but it does help make the amp sound better.
Replace the awful sounding 1N4007 power supply diodes with HEXFRED fast switching diodes. This smooths out the sound and makes it sound almost like a tube rectifier.
Replace the output transformer with something better and bigger from Mercury Magnetics or the like.
Replace the stock speakers with something good like Weber, Tone Tubby, Eminence, VOX, etc.
Install NOS US or Euro tubes is always a plus.
Some Fender amps have custom turret boards to make them wired just like the old hand wired.
The reason you are seeing this is to save labor costs and keep product selling. Most players do not want to spend $2000+ for a hand made amp. But vintage ones are still bargains to be had.
The above fixes will help some, but why not just go out and buy a nice hand made boutique or vintage amp and stop screwing around.
I think an amp is only "Cheap" when it has lesser quality components at the same price as one with higher quality ones. "Less Expensive" is an an amp that has lesser quality and thus the price is less. "Value" is something altogether different.
Time will tell, but with the experience and large number of amps being built today, I'd say "Value" has improved dramatically. This "Value" didn't necessarily exist years ago. And if you want the same "high quality" amp that you bought 30 years ago, you can still find it -- and you'll pay for it! I'm not making any judgements, because I can't, about the new Vox amps. I'm looking forward to a new AC-15CC for me when they arrive!!!
Time will tell, but with the experience and large number of amps being built today, I'd say "Value" has improved dramatically. This "Value" didn't necessarily exist years ago. And if you want the same "high quality" amp that you bought 30 years ago, you can still find it -- and you'll pay for it! I'm not making any judgements, because I can't, about the new Vox amps. I'm looking forward to a new AC-15CC for me when they arrive!!!
A quality component "sounds" the same as a cheap one. But the cheap one may fail earlier.
But you can't tell. Of course the chinese components are cheap.
This is because the employees earn even less money than in Mexico, or Bangla Desh, so what?
Do you really think, if a guitarist changes all resistors of his chinese amp it will sound different?
Sorry. An amp's sound is made by circuit design,
not by changing some capacitor brands.
But of course, there are good and bad sounding loudspeakers, a loudspeaker is as such more an instrument than an electronic component
But you can't tell. Of course the chinese components are cheap.
This is because the employees earn even less money than in Mexico, or Bangla Desh, so what?
Do you really think, if a guitarist changes all resistors of his chinese amp it will sound different?
Sorry. An amp's sound is made by circuit design,
not by changing some capacitor brands.
But of course, there are good and bad sounding loudspeakers, a loudspeaker is as such more an instrument than an electronic component